What is the best strategy for white in this position?












11















1n3r2/q4pbk/3p2pp/r1pPp3/1pB1P3/1P2BP2/2PQ2PP/3R1RK1 w - - 0 1


I was white in the diagram position in an OTB game I played recently. However, I couldn't find a satisfactory plan. Playing f4 is always tricky because it vacates the e5 square for the black knight and opens up the diagonal for the black bishop. I have the feeling I evaluated this position wrong and it is in fact just equal and not better for white. Any thoughts?










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  • Is it common to avoid using chess engines to evaluate positions? It seems only one of the answers even mentions this option.

    – JollyJoker
    22 hours ago
















11















1n3r2/q4pbk/3p2pp/r1pPp3/1pB1P3/1P2BP2/2PQ2PP/3R1RK1 w - - 0 1


I was white in the diagram position in an OTB game I played recently. However, I couldn't find a satisfactory plan. Playing f4 is always tricky because it vacates the e5 square for the black knight and opens up the diagonal for the black bishop. I have the feeling I evaluated this position wrong and it is in fact just equal and not better for white. Any thoughts?










share|improve this question

























  • Is it common to avoid using chess engines to evaluate positions? It seems only one of the answers even mentions this option.

    – JollyJoker
    22 hours ago














11












11








11








1n3r2/q4pbk/3p2pp/r1pPp3/1pB1P3/1P2BP2/2PQ2PP/3R1RK1 w - - 0 1


I was white in the diagram position in an OTB game I played recently. However, I couldn't find a satisfactory plan. Playing f4 is always tricky because it vacates the e5 square for the black knight and opens up the diagonal for the black bishop. I have the feeling I evaluated this position wrong and it is in fact just equal and not better for white. Any thoughts?










share|improve this question
















1n3r2/q4pbk/3p2pp/r1pPp3/1pB1P3/1P2BP2/2PQ2PP/3R1RK1 w - - 0 1


I was white in the diagram position in an OTB game I played recently. However, I couldn't find a satisfactory plan. Playing f4 is always tricky because it vacates the e5 square for the black knight and opens up the diagonal for the black bishop. I have the feeling I evaluated this position wrong and it is in fact just equal and not better for white. Any thoughts?







strategy






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited yesterday









MrMaxPayne

525




525










asked yesterday









postnubilaphoebuspostnubilaphoebus

31616




31616













  • Is it common to avoid using chess engines to evaluate positions? It seems only one of the answers even mentions this option.

    – JollyJoker
    22 hours ago



















  • Is it common to avoid using chess engines to evaluate positions? It seems only one of the answers even mentions this option.

    – JollyJoker
    22 hours ago

















Is it common to avoid using chess engines to evaluate positions? It seems only one of the answers even mentions this option.

– JollyJoker
22 hours ago





Is it common to avoid using chess engines to evaluate positions? It seems only one of the answers even mentions this option.

– JollyJoker
22 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















6














I think the f4-plan is doomed to fail. It would be beautiful if we could achieve it in good conditions, however, as you pointed out, f4 is met with ...exf4 followed by probably ...Qe7 and Nd7-e5. We get rid of the pressure on the 'a' file though, so it's better than doing nothing.



If we went for g3, preparing for gxf4 after f4, our effort will be met by ...f5! shattering our dreams.



It would be interesting to try to put our light-squared bishop on a4, but I don't see it working either after 1.Qd3 Nd7 2.Bb5 and now even Nb6 does fine



For those reasons, I think the best answer here is to immediately play c3!? It's true that Black has ...Ra2, but after Qe1 I don't really think it does much. If Black captured on c3, our queen would be now in a great square to fight for the a file. If Black does NOT capture, then we can begin to put some pressure on b4






share|improve this answer































    1














    I see a couple ideas:



    First your f4 idea seems reasonable. Consider 1.g3 with the idea of f4 when the threat of f5 is good. If Black plays exf4 then gxf4 controls e5. You can even re-deploy the Bishop from c4 to h3 to control the knight.



    The second idea, which seems like a clear edge for White to me, is to trade the queen-side pawns by playing c3 and eventually b4. This will expose the d6 pawn as weak while completely destroying Blacks space advantage on that side of the board.




    I would play 1.c3




    Don't worry about 1...Ra2 that is just a temporary nuisance; simply Qe1 and Black has to deal with the threat of cxb4. On bxc3 2.Qxc3 followed by Ra1 takes over the a-file. Black is suffering here.






    share|improve this answer































      1














      Whites position is much better/winning due to double bishop advantage, space advantage and black's poor dark square bishop.



      f4 looks like a good plan, however it needs preparation with g3. It threatens f5 with f6 which will completely crush black's position.



      c3 looks pretty good as well, breaking up black's queen side.



      Of course all of this is my speculation and you should just use an engine to see white's best plan.






      share|improve this answer


























      • After 1.g3 f5 White has no edge at all. The position is still unclear after 1.c3!? How on Earth is that c4 bishop supposed to be an advanatage

        – David
        23 hours ago



















      -1














      I think 1. f4 isn't that bad, in this line



      1n3r2/q4pbk/3p2pp/r1pPp3/1pB1P3/1P2BP2/2PQ2PP/3R1RK1 w - - 1 0

      1. f4 exf4 2. Bxf4 Qe7 3. e5 dxe5 4. d6 Qd8
      5. Be3 f5 6. Qd5 Nd7


      The white queen is beautifully centered, black has two weaknesses, he's soon to be challenged on the open a-file and after something like 7. Kh1 the white king is more safe and don't forget white has just acquired a passed pawn on the 6th rank.



      I don't say by any stretch it's winning, but one can argue it's not a bad plan.






      share|improve this answer



















      • 2





        And on 3...Bxe5 what do you do? 4.Bh6 doesn't work.

        – Ywapom
        yesterday











      • then 4. Bxh6 that would clear the way for the f-rook. If queen takes 4. .. Qxe5, 5. Rde1 is strong for example 4...Qxe5 5.Rde1 Qg5 6. Qxg5 hxg 7. Ra6 and if pawn takes you get the passed pawn and you open the bishop eyes. It looks promising !

        – MrMaxPayne
        22 hours ago











      • 4.Bxh6 Bxh2+ 5.Kh2 Qh4+ and Qxh6.

        – Ywapom
        14 hours ago












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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      6














      I think the f4-plan is doomed to fail. It would be beautiful if we could achieve it in good conditions, however, as you pointed out, f4 is met with ...exf4 followed by probably ...Qe7 and Nd7-e5. We get rid of the pressure on the 'a' file though, so it's better than doing nothing.



      If we went for g3, preparing for gxf4 after f4, our effort will be met by ...f5! shattering our dreams.



      It would be interesting to try to put our light-squared bishop on a4, but I don't see it working either after 1.Qd3 Nd7 2.Bb5 and now even Nb6 does fine



      For those reasons, I think the best answer here is to immediately play c3!? It's true that Black has ...Ra2, but after Qe1 I don't really think it does much. If Black captured on c3, our queen would be now in a great square to fight for the a file. If Black does NOT capture, then we can begin to put some pressure on b4






      share|improve this answer




























        6














        I think the f4-plan is doomed to fail. It would be beautiful if we could achieve it in good conditions, however, as you pointed out, f4 is met with ...exf4 followed by probably ...Qe7 and Nd7-e5. We get rid of the pressure on the 'a' file though, so it's better than doing nothing.



        If we went for g3, preparing for gxf4 after f4, our effort will be met by ...f5! shattering our dreams.



        It would be interesting to try to put our light-squared bishop on a4, but I don't see it working either after 1.Qd3 Nd7 2.Bb5 and now even Nb6 does fine



        For those reasons, I think the best answer here is to immediately play c3!? It's true that Black has ...Ra2, but after Qe1 I don't really think it does much. If Black captured on c3, our queen would be now in a great square to fight for the a file. If Black does NOT capture, then we can begin to put some pressure on b4






        share|improve this answer


























          6












          6








          6







          I think the f4-plan is doomed to fail. It would be beautiful if we could achieve it in good conditions, however, as you pointed out, f4 is met with ...exf4 followed by probably ...Qe7 and Nd7-e5. We get rid of the pressure on the 'a' file though, so it's better than doing nothing.



          If we went for g3, preparing for gxf4 after f4, our effort will be met by ...f5! shattering our dreams.



          It would be interesting to try to put our light-squared bishop on a4, but I don't see it working either after 1.Qd3 Nd7 2.Bb5 and now even Nb6 does fine



          For those reasons, I think the best answer here is to immediately play c3!? It's true that Black has ...Ra2, but after Qe1 I don't really think it does much. If Black captured on c3, our queen would be now in a great square to fight for the a file. If Black does NOT capture, then we can begin to put some pressure on b4






          share|improve this answer













          I think the f4-plan is doomed to fail. It would be beautiful if we could achieve it in good conditions, however, as you pointed out, f4 is met with ...exf4 followed by probably ...Qe7 and Nd7-e5. We get rid of the pressure on the 'a' file though, so it's better than doing nothing.



          If we went for g3, preparing for gxf4 after f4, our effort will be met by ...f5! shattering our dreams.



          It would be interesting to try to put our light-squared bishop on a4, but I don't see it working either after 1.Qd3 Nd7 2.Bb5 and now even Nb6 does fine



          For those reasons, I think the best answer here is to immediately play c3!? It's true that Black has ...Ra2, but after Qe1 I don't really think it does much. If Black captured on c3, our queen would be now in a great square to fight for the a file. If Black does NOT capture, then we can begin to put some pressure on b4







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered yesterday









          DavidDavid

          2764




          2764























              1














              I see a couple ideas:



              First your f4 idea seems reasonable. Consider 1.g3 with the idea of f4 when the threat of f5 is good. If Black plays exf4 then gxf4 controls e5. You can even re-deploy the Bishop from c4 to h3 to control the knight.



              The second idea, which seems like a clear edge for White to me, is to trade the queen-side pawns by playing c3 and eventually b4. This will expose the d6 pawn as weak while completely destroying Blacks space advantage on that side of the board.




              I would play 1.c3




              Don't worry about 1...Ra2 that is just a temporary nuisance; simply Qe1 and Black has to deal with the threat of cxb4. On bxc3 2.Qxc3 followed by Ra1 takes over the a-file. Black is suffering here.






              share|improve this answer




























                1














                I see a couple ideas:



                First your f4 idea seems reasonable. Consider 1.g3 with the idea of f4 when the threat of f5 is good. If Black plays exf4 then gxf4 controls e5. You can even re-deploy the Bishop from c4 to h3 to control the knight.



                The second idea, which seems like a clear edge for White to me, is to trade the queen-side pawns by playing c3 and eventually b4. This will expose the d6 pawn as weak while completely destroying Blacks space advantage on that side of the board.




                I would play 1.c3




                Don't worry about 1...Ra2 that is just a temporary nuisance; simply Qe1 and Black has to deal with the threat of cxb4. On bxc3 2.Qxc3 followed by Ra1 takes over the a-file. Black is suffering here.






                share|improve this answer


























                  1












                  1








                  1







                  I see a couple ideas:



                  First your f4 idea seems reasonable. Consider 1.g3 with the idea of f4 when the threat of f5 is good. If Black plays exf4 then gxf4 controls e5. You can even re-deploy the Bishop from c4 to h3 to control the knight.



                  The second idea, which seems like a clear edge for White to me, is to trade the queen-side pawns by playing c3 and eventually b4. This will expose the d6 pawn as weak while completely destroying Blacks space advantage on that side of the board.




                  I would play 1.c3




                  Don't worry about 1...Ra2 that is just a temporary nuisance; simply Qe1 and Black has to deal with the threat of cxb4. On bxc3 2.Qxc3 followed by Ra1 takes over the a-file. Black is suffering here.






                  share|improve this answer













                  I see a couple ideas:



                  First your f4 idea seems reasonable. Consider 1.g3 with the idea of f4 when the threat of f5 is good. If Black plays exf4 then gxf4 controls e5. You can even re-deploy the Bishop from c4 to h3 to control the knight.



                  The second idea, which seems like a clear edge for White to me, is to trade the queen-side pawns by playing c3 and eventually b4. This will expose the d6 pawn as weak while completely destroying Blacks space advantage on that side of the board.




                  I would play 1.c3




                  Don't worry about 1...Ra2 that is just a temporary nuisance; simply Qe1 and Black has to deal with the threat of cxb4. On bxc3 2.Qxc3 followed by Ra1 takes over the a-file. Black is suffering here.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered yesterday









                  YwapomYwapom

                  2,907321




                  2,907321























                      1














                      Whites position is much better/winning due to double bishop advantage, space advantage and black's poor dark square bishop.



                      f4 looks like a good plan, however it needs preparation with g3. It threatens f5 with f6 which will completely crush black's position.



                      c3 looks pretty good as well, breaking up black's queen side.



                      Of course all of this is my speculation and you should just use an engine to see white's best plan.






                      share|improve this answer


























                      • After 1.g3 f5 White has no edge at all. The position is still unclear after 1.c3!? How on Earth is that c4 bishop supposed to be an advanatage

                        – David
                        23 hours ago
















                      1














                      Whites position is much better/winning due to double bishop advantage, space advantage and black's poor dark square bishop.



                      f4 looks like a good plan, however it needs preparation with g3. It threatens f5 with f6 which will completely crush black's position.



                      c3 looks pretty good as well, breaking up black's queen side.



                      Of course all of this is my speculation and you should just use an engine to see white's best plan.






                      share|improve this answer


























                      • After 1.g3 f5 White has no edge at all. The position is still unclear after 1.c3!? How on Earth is that c4 bishop supposed to be an advanatage

                        – David
                        23 hours ago














                      1












                      1








                      1







                      Whites position is much better/winning due to double bishop advantage, space advantage and black's poor dark square bishop.



                      f4 looks like a good plan, however it needs preparation with g3. It threatens f5 with f6 which will completely crush black's position.



                      c3 looks pretty good as well, breaking up black's queen side.



                      Of course all of this is my speculation and you should just use an engine to see white's best plan.






                      share|improve this answer















                      Whites position is much better/winning due to double bishop advantage, space advantage and black's poor dark square bishop.



                      f4 looks like a good plan, however it needs preparation with g3. It threatens f5 with f6 which will completely crush black's position.



                      c3 looks pretty good as well, breaking up black's queen side.



                      Of course all of this is my speculation and you should just use an engine to see white's best plan.







                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited yesterday

























                      answered yesterday









                      Matthew LiuMatthew Liu

                      878157




                      878157













                      • After 1.g3 f5 White has no edge at all. The position is still unclear after 1.c3!? How on Earth is that c4 bishop supposed to be an advanatage

                        – David
                        23 hours ago



















                      • After 1.g3 f5 White has no edge at all. The position is still unclear after 1.c3!? How on Earth is that c4 bishop supposed to be an advanatage

                        – David
                        23 hours ago

















                      After 1.g3 f5 White has no edge at all. The position is still unclear after 1.c3!? How on Earth is that c4 bishop supposed to be an advanatage

                      – David
                      23 hours ago





                      After 1.g3 f5 White has no edge at all. The position is still unclear after 1.c3!? How on Earth is that c4 bishop supposed to be an advanatage

                      – David
                      23 hours ago











                      -1














                      I think 1. f4 isn't that bad, in this line



                      1n3r2/q4pbk/3p2pp/r1pPp3/1pB1P3/1P2BP2/2PQ2PP/3R1RK1 w - - 1 0

                      1. f4 exf4 2. Bxf4 Qe7 3. e5 dxe5 4. d6 Qd8
                      5. Be3 f5 6. Qd5 Nd7


                      The white queen is beautifully centered, black has two weaknesses, he's soon to be challenged on the open a-file and after something like 7. Kh1 the white king is more safe and don't forget white has just acquired a passed pawn on the 6th rank.



                      I don't say by any stretch it's winning, but one can argue it's not a bad plan.






                      share|improve this answer



















                      • 2





                        And on 3...Bxe5 what do you do? 4.Bh6 doesn't work.

                        – Ywapom
                        yesterday











                      • then 4. Bxh6 that would clear the way for the f-rook. If queen takes 4. .. Qxe5, 5. Rde1 is strong for example 4...Qxe5 5.Rde1 Qg5 6. Qxg5 hxg 7. Ra6 and if pawn takes you get the passed pawn and you open the bishop eyes. It looks promising !

                        – MrMaxPayne
                        22 hours ago











                      • 4.Bxh6 Bxh2+ 5.Kh2 Qh4+ and Qxh6.

                        – Ywapom
                        14 hours ago
















                      -1














                      I think 1. f4 isn't that bad, in this line



                      1n3r2/q4pbk/3p2pp/r1pPp3/1pB1P3/1P2BP2/2PQ2PP/3R1RK1 w - - 1 0

                      1. f4 exf4 2. Bxf4 Qe7 3. e5 dxe5 4. d6 Qd8
                      5. Be3 f5 6. Qd5 Nd7


                      The white queen is beautifully centered, black has two weaknesses, he's soon to be challenged on the open a-file and after something like 7. Kh1 the white king is more safe and don't forget white has just acquired a passed pawn on the 6th rank.



                      I don't say by any stretch it's winning, but one can argue it's not a bad plan.






                      share|improve this answer



















                      • 2





                        And on 3...Bxe5 what do you do? 4.Bh6 doesn't work.

                        – Ywapom
                        yesterday











                      • then 4. Bxh6 that would clear the way for the f-rook. If queen takes 4. .. Qxe5, 5. Rde1 is strong for example 4...Qxe5 5.Rde1 Qg5 6. Qxg5 hxg 7. Ra6 and if pawn takes you get the passed pawn and you open the bishop eyes. It looks promising !

                        – MrMaxPayne
                        22 hours ago











                      • 4.Bxh6 Bxh2+ 5.Kh2 Qh4+ and Qxh6.

                        – Ywapom
                        14 hours ago














                      -1












                      -1








                      -1







                      I think 1. f4 isn't that bad, in this line



                      1n3r2/q4pbk/3p2pp/r1pPp3/1pB1P3/1P2BP2/2PQ2PP/3R1RK1 w - - 1 0

                      1. f4 exf4 2. Bxf4 Qe7 3. e5 dxe5 4. d6 Qd8
                      5. Be3 f5 6. Qd5 Nd7


                      The white queen is beautifully centered, black has two weaknesses, he's soon to be challenged on the open a-file and after something like 7. Kh1 the white king is more safe and don't forget white has just acquired a passed pawn on the 6th rank.



                      I don't say by any stretch it's winning, but one can argue it's not a bad plan.






                      share|improve this answer













                      I think 1. f4 isn't that bad, in this line



                      1n3r2/q4pbk/3p2pp/r1pPp3/1pB1P3/1P2BP2/2PQ2PP/3R1RK1 w - - 1 0

                      1. f4 exf4 2. Bxf4 Qe7 3. e5 dxe5 4. d6 Qd8
                      5. Be3 f5 6. Qd5 Nd7


                      The white queen is beautifully centered, black has two weaknesses, he's soon to be challenged on the open a-file and after something like 7. Kh1 the white king is more safe and don't forget white has just acquired a passed pawn on the 6th rank.



                      I don't say by any stretch it's winning, but one can argue it's not a bad plan.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered yesterday









                      MrMaxPayneMrMaxPayne

                      525




                      525








                      • 2





                        And on 3...Bxe5 what do you do? 4.Bh6 doesn't work.

                        – Ywapom
                        yesterday











                      • then 4. Bxh6 that would clear the way for the f-rook. If queen takes 4. .. Qxe5, 5. Rde1 is strong for example 4...Qxe5 5.Rde1 Qg5 6. Qxg5 hxg 7. Ra6 and if pawn takes you get the passed pawn and you open the bishop eyes. It looks promising !

                        – MrMaxPayne
                        22 hours ago











                      • 4.Bxh6 Bxh2+ 5.Kh2 Qh4+ and Qxh6.

                        – Ywapom
                        14 hours ago














                      • 2





                        And on 3...Bxe5 what do you do? 4.Bh6 doesn't work.

                        – Ywapom
                        yesterday











                      • then 4. Bxh6 that would clear the way for the f-rook. If queen takes 4. .. Qxe5, 5. Rde1 is strong for example 4...Qxe5 5.Rde1 Qg5 6. Qxg5 hxg 7. Ra6 and if pawn takes you get the passed pawn and you open the bishop eyes. It looks promising !

                        – MrMaxPayne
                        22 hours ago











                      • 4.Bxh6 Bxh2+ 5.Kh2 Qh4+ and Qxh6.

                        – Ywapom
                        14 hours ago








                      2




                      2





                      And on 3...Bxe5 what do you do? 4.Bh6 doesn't work.

                      – Ywapom
                      yesterday





                      And on 3...Bxe5 what do you do? 4.Bh6 doesn't work.

                      – Ywapom
                      yesterday













                      then 4. Bxh6 that would clear the way for the f-rook. If queen takes 4. .. Qxe5, 5. Rde1 is strong for example 4...Qxe5 5.Rde1 Qg5 6. Qxg5 hxg 7. Ra6 and if pawn takes you get the passed pawn and you open the bishop eyes. It looks promising !

                      – MrMaxPayne
                      22 hours ago





                      then 4. Bxh6 that would clear the way for the f-rook. If queen takes 4. .. Qxe5, 5. Rde1 is strong for example 4...Qxe5 5.Rde1 Qg5 6. Qxg5 hxg 7. Ra6 and if pawn takes you get the passed pawn and you open the bishop eyes. It looks promising !

                      – MrMaxPayne
                      22 hours ago













                      4.Bxh6 Bxh2+ 5.Kh2 Qh4+ and Qxh6.

                      – Ywapom
                      14 hours ago





                      4.Bxh6 Bxh2+ 5.Kh2 Qh4+ and Qxh6.

                      – Ywapom
                      14 hours ago


















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