Would an alien lifeform be able to achieve space travel if lacking in vision?












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Think of this alien life form as something resembling earth bats, placed in a planet with Earth-like conditions.




  1. Micro-bats have small and poorly developed eyes. Similarly, this alien species is completely blind, with the only exception that they can detect ultraviolet in low levels.

  2. They make use of magneto-reception, like birds on Earth, but hundreds of times more efficiently. They can differentiate their world's magnetic field (north-south) and latitudes when covering long-distance journeys.


  3. Echolocation: perhaps the most interesting part. They are able to emit ultrasonic sounds and receive returning echoes to detect, localize and classify their surroundings. They emit a continuous call, just like bat calls, ranging in intensity from 50/60 to 140 decibels.


Humans on the other hand, rely on vision to translate and process data from our environment. We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task. Still, here on Earth we find species that don't need eye-sight to survive.



But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos. All our missions wouldn't have been accomplished if we were not able to see it. Considering all the sensory systems I listed for this hypothetical alien species: how could they achieve space travel? How could they even perceive the notion of the universe itself if they were not even able to look at it?










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  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The critical invention is a "display" that will enable them to perceive and understand the output of an electromagnetic sensing device. Once they've achieved that, there's nothing to stop them using radar, lidar and everything else, and in astronomical terms they'll be no more blind than us. Their only limitations are the "resolution" of such a display, but that's a minor handicap on the grand scale of things.
    $endgroup$
    – Starfish Prime
    12 hours ago








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    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of Could a species develop the tech necessary to land on their own moon without comprehending light?
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    11 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Note that the ultraviolet range of the spectrum covers wavelengths from 10nm to 400nm (a 390nm range), while the visible light spectrum covers wavelengths from 380nm to 740nm (a 360nm range). The upper and lower bounds of our vision covers about a two-fold change in photon energy, but for the bats, it's more like a forty-fold change in energy. Your bats have a wider color spectrum than humans!
    $endgroup$
    – Nuclear Wang
    7 hours ago






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    They might achieve it faster since they would have a pressing mystery of why it is hot during the day.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    5 hours ago






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    @JBH -- I address that in my answer. Notice also that the two questions dòn't yield the same answers. If I had answered your question, the answer would have been "hell no!" --- using only taste, smell, touch, thermosensation, pressure, and any of the twenty-some other senses humans have, we'd have no way of knowing anything beyond a warm sòmething that crosses above us. This question is different because it specifies vision-like senses that are distinct from human vision, and indeed, allows for senses humans lack.
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    4 hours ago
















12












$begingroup$


Think of this alien life form as something resembling earth bats, placed in a planet with Earth-like conditions.




  1. Micro-bats have small and poorly developed eyes. Similarly, this alien species is completely blind, with the only exception that they can detect ultraviolet in low levels.

  2. They make use of magneto-reception, like birds on Earth, but hundreds of times more efficiently. They can differentiate their world's magnetic field (north-south) and latitudes when covering long-distance journeys.


  3. Echolocation: perhaps the most interesting part. They are able to emit ultrasonic sounds and receive returning echoes to detect, localize and classify their surroundings. They emit a continuous call, just like bat calls, ranging in intensity from 50/60 to 140 decibels.


Humans on the other hand, rely on vision to translate and process data from our environment. We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task. Still, here on Earth we find species that don't need eye-sight to survive.



But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos. All our missions wouldn't have been accomplished if we were not able to see it. Considering all the sensory systems I listed for this hypothetical alien species: how could they achieve space travel? How could they even perceive the notion of the universe itself if they were not even able to look at it?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Liam00 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The critical invention is a "display" that will enable them to perceive and understand the output of an electromagnetic sensing device. Once they've achieved that, there's nothing to stop them using radar, lidar and everything else, and in astronomical terms they'll be no more blind than us. Their only limitations are the "resolution" of such a display, but that's a minor handicap on the grand scale of things.
    $endgroup$
    – Starfish Prime
    12 hours ago








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of Could a species develop the tech necessary to land on their own moon without comprehending light?
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    11 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Note that the ultraviolet range of the spectrum covers wavelengths from 10nm to 400nm (a 390nm range), while the visible light spectrum covers wavelengths from 380nm to 740nm (a 360nm range). The upper and lower bounds of our vision covers about a two-fold change in photon energy, but for the bats, it's more like a forty-fold change in energy. Your bats have a wider color spectrum than humans!
    $endgroup$
    – Nuclear Wang
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    They might achieve it faster since they would have a pressing mystery of why it is hot during the day.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    5 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @JBH -- I address that in my answer. Notice also that the two questions dòn't yield the same answers. If I had answered your question, the answer would have been "hell no!" --- using only taste, smell, touch, thermosensation, pressure, and any of the twenty-some other senses humans have, we'd have no way of knowing anything beyond a warm sòmething that crosses above us. This question is different because it specifies vision-like senses that are distinct from human vision, and indeed, allows for senses humans lack.
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    4 hours ago














12












12








12


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$begingroup$


Think of this alien life form as something resembling earth bats, placed in a planet with Earth-like conditions.




  1. Micro-bats have small and poorly developed eyes. Similarly, this alien species is completely blind, with the only exception that they can detect ultraviolet in low levels.

  2. They make use of magneto-reception, like birds on Earth, but hundreds of times more efficiently. They can differentiate their world's magnetic field (north-south) and latitudes when covering long-distance journeys.


  3. Echolocation: perhaps the most interesting part. They are able to emit ultrasonic sounds and receive returning echoes to detect, localize and classify their surroundings. They emit a continuous call, just like bat calls, ranging in intensity from 50/60 to 140 decibels.


Humans on the other hand, rely on vision to translate and process data from our environment. We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task. Still, here on Earth we find species that don't need eye-sight to survive.



But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos. All our missions wouldn't have been accomplished if we were not able to see it. Considering all the sensory systems I listed for this hypothetical alien species: how could they achieve space travel? How could they even perceive the notion of the universe itself if they were not even able to look at it?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Liam00 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




Think of this alien life form as something resembling earth bats, placed in a planet with Earth-like conditions.




  1. Micro-bats have small and poorly developed eyes. Similarly, this alien species is completely blind, with the only exception that they can detect ultraviolet in low levels.

  2. They make use of magneto-reception, like birds on Earth, but hundreds of times more efficiently. They can differentiate their world's magnetic field (north-south) and latitudes when covering long-distance journeys.


  3. Echolocation: perhaps the most interesting part. They are able to emit ultrasonic sounds and receive returning echoes to detect, localize and classify their surroundings. They emit a continuous call, just like bat calls, ranging in intensity from 50/60 to 140 decibels.


Humans on the other hand, rely on vision to translate and process data from our environment. We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task. Still, here on Earth we find species that don't need eye-sight to survive.



But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos. All our missions wouldn't have been accomplished if we were not able to see it. Considering all the sensory systems I listed for this hypothetical alien species: how could they achieve space travel? How could they even perceive the notion of the universe itself if they were not even able to look at it?







science-based aliens xenobiology space-travel






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edited 12 hours ago









L.Dutch

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91.1k29211438






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asked 13 hours ago









Liam00Liam00

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New contributor





Liam00 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The critical invention is a "display" that will enable them to perceive and understand the output of an electromagnetic sensing device. Once they've achieved that, there's nothing to stop them using radar, lidar and everything else, and in astronomical terms they'll be no more blind than us. Their only limitations are the "resolution" of such a display, but that's a minor handicap on the grand scale of things.
    $endgroup$
    – Starfish Prime
    12 hours ago








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of Could a species develop the tech necessary to land on their own moon without comprehending light?
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    11 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Note that the ultraviolet range of the spectrum covers wavelengths from 10nm to 400nm (a 390nm range), while the visible light spectrum covers wavelengths from 380nm to 740nm (a 360nm range). The upper and lower bounds of our vision covers about a two-fold change in photon energy, but for the bats, it's more like a forty-fold change in energy. Your bats have a wider color spectrum than humans!
    $endgroup$
    – Nuclear Wang
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    They might achieve it faster since they would have a pressing mystery of why it is hot during the day.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    5 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @JBH -- I address that in my answer. Notice also that the two questions dòn't yield the same answers. If I had answered your question, the answer would have been "hell no!" --- using only taste, smell, touch, thermosensation, pressure, and any of the twenty-some other senses humans have, we'd have no way of knowing anything beyond a warm sòmething that crosses above us. This question is different because it specifies vision-like senses that are distinct from human vision, and indeed, allows for senses humans lack.
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    4 hours ago














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The critical invention is a "display" that will enable them to perceive and understand the output of an electromagnetic sensing device. Once they've achieved that, there's nothing to stop them using radar, lidar and everything else, and in astronomical terms they'll be no more blind than us. Their only limitations are the "resolution" of such a display, but that's a minor handicap on the grand scale of things.
    $endgroup$
    – Starfish Prime
    12 hours ago








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of Could a species develop the tech necessary to land on their own moon without comprehending light?
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    11 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Note that the ultraviolet range of the spectrum covers wavelengths from 10nm to 400nm (a 390nm range), while the visible light spectrum covers wavelengths from 380nm to 740nm (a 360nm range). The upper and lower bounds of our vision covers about a two-fold change in photon energy, but for the bats, it's more like a forty-fold change in energy. Your bats have a wider color spectrum than humans!
    $endgroup$
    – Nuclear Wang
    7 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    They might achieve it faster since they would have a pressing mystery of why it is hot during the day.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    5 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @JBH -- I address that in my answer. Notice also that the two questions dòn't yield the same answers. If I had answered your question, the answer would have been "hell no!" --- using only taste, smell, touch, thermosensation, pressure, and any of the twenty-some other senses humans have, we'd have no way of knowing anything beyond a warm sòmething that crosses above us. This question is different because it specifies vision-like senses that are distinct from human vision, and indeed, allows for senses humans lack.
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    4 hours ago








2




2




$begingroup$
The critical invention is a "display" that will enable them to perceive and understand the output of an electromagnetic sensing device. Once they've achieved that, there's nothing to stop them using radar, lidar and everything else, and in astronomical terms they'll be no more blind than us. Their only limitations are the "resolution" of such a display, but that's a minor handicap on the grand scale of things.
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
12 hours ago






$begingroup$
The critical invention is a "display" that will enable them to perceive and understand the output of an electromagnetic sensing device. Once they've achieved that, there's nothing to stop them using radar, lidar and everything else, and in astronomical terms they'll be no more blind than us. Their only limitations are the "resolution" of such a display, but that's a minor handicap on the grand scale of things.
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
12 hours ago






2




2




$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Could a species develop the tech necessary to land on their own moon without comprehending light?
$endgroup$
– JBH
11 hours ago




$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Could a species develop the tech necessary to land on their own moon without comprehending light?
$endgroup$
– JBH
11 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
Note that the ultraviolet range of the spectrum covers wavelengths from 10nm to 400nm (a 390nm range), while the visible light spectrum covers wavelengths from 380nm to 740nm (a 360nm range). The upper and lower bounds of our vision covers about a two-fold change in photon energy, but for the bats, it's more like a forty-fold change in energy. Your bats have a wider color spectrum than humans!
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
Note that the ultraviolet range of the spectrum covers wavelengths from 10nm to 400nm (a 390nm range), while the visible light spectrum covers wavelengths from 380nm to 740nm (a 360nm range). The upper and lower bounds of our vision covers about a two-fold change in photon energy, but for the bats, it's more like a forty-fold change in energy. Your bats have a wider color spectrum than humans!
$endgroup$
– Nuclear Wang
7 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
They might achieve it faster since they would have a pressing mystery of why it is hot during the day.
$endgroup$
– John
5 hours ago




$begingroup$
They might achieve it faster since they would have a pressing mystery of why it is hot during the day.
$endgroup$
– John
5 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
@JBH -- I address that in my answer. Notice also that the two questions dòn't yield the same answers. If I had answered your question, the answer would have been "hell no!" --- using only taste, smell, touch, thermosensation, pressure, and any of the twenty-some other senses humans have, we'd have no way of knowing anything beyond a warm sòmething that crosses above us. This question is different because it specifies vision-like senses that are distinct from human vision, and indeed, allows for senses humans lack.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
@JBH -- I address that in my answer. Notice also that the two questions dòn't yield the same answers. If I had answered your question, the answer would have been "hell no!" --- using only taste, smell, touch, thermosensation, pressure, and any of the twenty-some other senses humans have, we'd have no way of knowing anything beyond a warm sòmething that crosses above us. This question is different because it specifies vision-like senses that are distinct from human vision, and indeed, allows for senses humans lack.
$endgroup$
– elemtilas
4 hours ago










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sight is necessary to understand the cosmos




If with sight you mean "capability of elaborating electromagnetic waves in the range of the visible spectrum", the statement is simply wrong. We have just got the report that the first image of a black hole event horizon was taken thanks to observation in the radio-frequencies.



So, no, sight is not strictly necessary to understand the cosmos. It is true that the broader spectrum one can analyze the more information can harvest, but lacking a fraction of the spectrum is no showstopper.



Also on a human scale, several space missions have succeeded in exploring space without having a camera for exploration. Just think of the Sputnik: it didn't have a camera, so technically it was blind.



And even we don't need to view something to understand it. Whoever takes calculus at a university level can describe your with extreme precision the properties of a multidimensional surface without visualizing it, just by studying the function representing it. And, if you object that calculus is not exactly a standard knowledge, even visually impaired people get a good understanding of the world without seeing it.






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    I get your point, but you are talking about inanimate human-made objects, not a sentient lifeform. We still need to convert their data into visual representations to understand it
    $endgroup$
    – Liam00
    12 hours ago








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    @Liam00 Could your lifeforms possibly do the same? Use technology to convert visual data into a form they could "see"? Vision has physical components that can be replicated and although that cannot see light, they may sense evidence of its existance.
    $endgroup$
    – matildalee23
    11 hours ago










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    would magno-reception pick up the sun?
    $endgroup$
    – John
    5 hours ago










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    @John, the OP specifically said, "magneto-reception, like birds on Earth." That isn't vision, and it wouldn't pick up the sun no matter how sensitive.
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    – JBH
    4 hours ago










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    This answer could be improved if it addressed how a primitive culture might discover the existence of outer space without the capacity for vision. Magnetic sensitivity wouldn't enable them to detect cosmic radio waves, nor would echolocation provide any information about the conditions miles above their heads. A good analogy would be to consider how a colorblind person could be made to understand what color is.
    $endgroup$
    – MikeB
    3 hours ago





















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"We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task." is quickly debunked by even the briefest consideration of lives of blind scientists here on earth.



Human's lack of natural ability to see x-rays has not diminished our capacity to detect, measure, utilize, and interact with x-rays.



If a society develops to the point of being able to produce electronics and radio technology, then they will have little trouble "discovering" the stars. If they cannot 'see' something naturally, then they will be able to build tools and systems to translate emissions into a data-stream that they can interact with. Exactly the same as humans have done.



Can't see something in nature? Observe its effects as it interacts with something else that you can detect, and use that property to study the phenomenon.



Can't see x-rays? Observe how they cause some materials for fluoresce when struck with x-rays, and use that to explore, study, and refine how you can interact with them.



Can't see anything? Observe how light interacts with specific electronics, and develop a photo-diode or similar to construct tones or vibrations that you can observe, and build that into greater and more refined sensing technology.



You may wish to consider the fact that earth has blind astronomers. There is far more to space related research than being able to see it with your own eyes.



To reinforce how a human's visual senses are just a small part of how we observe the world, consider primitive interactions with fire. What are the main points to observe about fire?




  • It is bright

  • It makes a loud crackling sound

  • It emits heat that can be felt at a distance, and a LOT of heat that can be felt if touching it directly.

  • It emits smells based on what is burning and how it is burning

  • It changes the look and texture of material it consumes


Two of those points involve sight, three if you count smoke, and four of the five directly involve other senses.



Sight may be useful in learning about fire, but is not required to learn and understand it from a scientific standpoint.



Vision isn't even all that involved in learning to make fire. If you've ever tried using friction and sticks to start a fire, what is the first thing you observe? Do you see that you're beginning to "start a fire"? Of course not, as the first thing you'll observe is that rubbing things can make them warm.



As an experiment: Close your eyes and rub your hands together really hard and fast.



Open your eyes and let your hands cool off, and repeat the same experiment, but this time watch it.



Did being able to see it make it any easier to observe the heat?



Probably not - Because human vision doesn't do much with regards to heat...



So go back to starting a fire with sticks. What is the next thing you observe as you come closer to starting a fire?




  • See sparks? No


  • Smell a change in the wood? Yes.


Unless your sense of smell is especially bad, even by human standards, you will smell a change before you even see wisps of smoke. And by that point you will be able to feel a major change in the heat (And heat is related to fire...) far more than you will be able to see something that looks like fire...



If you don't know any thing about starting a fire from sticks, then you might observe that it sometimes becomes easier to start the fire if you feel just the right amount of wind coming from the right direction, and you can quickly learn more about how air is related to fire.



But that was all just how you can observe fire without relying heavily on vision. What about something else important to really advancing science, like electricity?



Primitive interactions include things like:
- Static sparks: See the light, feel the shock.
- Electromagnetism: Moves things, which may be felt or heard
- Current through a wire creates Heat long before it creates visible light...



-TL:DR -



Vision very much helps with the advancement of science. (And would make for a far more rapid advancement through early metal-ages with far fewer nasty burns...) But it is very far from a requirement for an individual or even a species to achieve great scientific advancements.



[Ironically, signing off: - A Visually Impaired Scientist...]






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  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Hmmm... our ability to detect and manipulate X-rays came from our investigation of light which came as a result of sight. Can you justify how X-rays can be detected without sight? This sounds like illogical logic. I'm not entirely convinced a sightless person, regardless what other senses they have, can develop electronics (or anything having to do with electromagnetics). "If a society develops..." doesn't justify "therefore they can."
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    4 hours ago










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    X-rays are on the same overall spectrum as visible light, which along with infrared - If they can feel the warmth of the sun, vs when they are in the cool of a shade, then they have a sensory foundation to begin exploring that field of science. Electromagnetic sciences can be discovered through sound: When magnets collide they make a sound - Why does that thing make a sound and make stuff move? ... SCIENCE! > An excuse to explore, learn, and experiment.
    $endgroup$
    – TheLuckless
    4 hours ago










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    You're looking at this from the perspective of a sighted person. What they can feel is heat, such as heat from a volcano or a hot spring, which they can experience and understand. It's a massive leap from that to, "there must be a sun!" which they cannot experience and cannot understand.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    4 hours ago












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    For the fun of the discussion, let me walk you through something. A blind person's first experience with lightning-generated fire. They know nothing about lightning, all they know is something went "boom!" They know nothing about fire, all they know is they got burned when they got too close. They can't see the destructive force of fire, but they could touch/taste the charcoal remains. How do they get from this to rubbing two sticks together? It's not obvious at all that they ever could. And you need to do that long before space travel.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    4 hours ago










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    Find fire in nature? - Well, you can Hear it, and FEEL the heat from it. You can feel it burning if you get too close to it. You can (hopefully quickly) learn about the damaging effects it has if you get too close to it. You can learn hot things can cause fire, and in turn figure out "Things that makes stuff hot"... > Continue train of thought to SCIENCE! and progression.
    $endgroup$
    – TheLuckless
    4 hours ago



















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I think your aliens would be better adapted to space exploration than humans are.



Echo location is a spatial sense. It gives you directions and distances and via Doppler shift changes in distances. A species with a sense like that would be able to understand something like the solar system much better than a species that relies on a planar sense tricked up to boost hand eye coordination so that you do not fall out of a tree.



It also maps directly into radar which works with exact same principles and has exact same limitations and advantages. Except it works in space. And radar is a human version so it needs a conversion to something us poor humans can understand. Your aliens would do much better since they would understand all the data about spatial data and movement directly.



You'd need an "echo display" that gives the proper audio response based on computer data and the sounds it receives but apart from being larger and lower resolution that visual analogues it is not that complex.



Generally changing vision to echo location loses things useless for space exploration such as ability to see detail and color and gives useful things such as better spatial sense and sense of motion.



And they also have a superior magnetic field sense. They could sense the planetary magnetic field, large ferrous objects moving in it, the direction the solar wind is coming from. They'd probably know where the sun is even at night.



In space they'd probably feel the solar magnetic field. Certainly the ship could have systems to allow them to do so. And to feel the movement of the ship and even the movements of the planets. Or other ships. And then there is the glorious stuff elemtilas talks about.






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    Excellent response! But I have a question: how does this species know there's anything Out There to begin with? Echolocation only works in a medium (like water or air) --- it's sound waves.
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    4 hours ago










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    @elemtilas They can feel the sun. Both the heat like humans can but also the way the magnetic field changes. Also they'd probably figure out that air is less dense higher up and then wonder up what happens when the air "runs out". It should be obvious that the sun is outside of atmosphere. But seriously it would probably happen organically as technology develops. A moon like we have could be deduced from the tides but the rest would be discovered with technology like we found galaxies and other star systems.
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    – Ville Niemi
    2 hours ago










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    Sorry I missed the bit about sensing the magnetic fields!
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    – elemtilas
    1 hour ago



















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Of Course!



That is, assuming these people have the intelligence, resources, sciences, temperament, desire, technological advancements, etc., etc.



If you can see this in the sky:



Our Magnetic Sun!



And something like this orbits your planet:



Our Magnetic Moon!!



Then you're more than equipped to get out and take a good look at this:



It's All Magnets From Here to Forever!!!



All of those things should be "visible" to a species who can see magnetic fields the way we see light.






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    "Magneto-reception, like birds on Earth" is not the ability to see magnetic fields.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    4 hours ago










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    @JBH Indeed --- but it's also "hundreds of times" better than what birds can do!
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    4 hours ago










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    Birds don't see magnetic lines. They merely sense it - like our sensing the passing of wind over our fingertips. I rarely downvote one of your answers, but this one I must. This isn't representing what the OP described.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @JBH --- As I said! It's "hundreds of times" better! The OP doesn't specify the actual nature & limitations of the sense in question, so I am presenting a possibility that will get the job done. I mean, birds' senses are pretty damn cool as they are. Keep in mind that our eyes evolved from a sensory patches that could basically detect light or dark. And now we can see colours and shapes and hues and detect movement and judge distances and all kinds of things with our eyes! If a species evolves from an ancestral form that can sense magnetic fields but is now hundreds of times more efficient...
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I see no reason not to postulate a sense that can "visualise" magnetic fields, and thus take in a broader spectrum of data. Obviously, I don't (and can't!) complain about the down vote --- I'm just happy you explained your rationale!
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    4 hours ago





















3












$begingroup$

I think my answer is: Yes.



Given only echo location it is not possible to discern anything in space or to orient oneself in space. However, to develop space travel, I suppose these aliens would require a high level of technological sophistication anyway. Otherwise some bat would just fly in the direction of "up" and suffocate. Word might get around that this is a bad idea.



If they first develop machinery to enhance their abilities sufficiently they might also realize that space is not just infinite emptiness.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    A bat flying up will run short of breath progressively in the same way as a climber would. (Or a pilot, for that matter.) Mammals have many more senses than just the five though, and sensing which way is "down" is one of them. Of course ours can be fooled by centripetal force, but flying animals are likely better at that.
    $endgroup$
    – Graham
    5 hours ago



















2












$begingroup$

A possible riff off of an echolocation like solution would be to release hundreds of small disposable probes that explode on impact with anything. Then light sensors the aliens have built could read the incoming data, and map out what is around them as a data point in 3D space. They would possibly be able to visualize any object based on their ability to memorize the coordinates reported by their machine, or have the machine create a model in UV or sound that they could "see" or understand. It's kind of like how a cats whiskers provide acute and specific sensory feed back from a specific point which allows the cat to make adjustments to their location with high precision almost instinctively.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    2












    $begingroup$

    Yes, measuring instruments are more important than senses... and you can have glasses for light polarization



    I think the crucial aspect of your alien species is whether or not they are able to build complex measuring instruments and transmit knowledge.



    A very important difference between Aristotle and Galileo was that the emphasis the latter put on measurement (rather than their intelligence or available senses). At the time, European manufacture was advanced enough to build the instruments that he and others would require to build up their calculations, and later develop the theories that formed the core of mechanics.



    The history of space travel would be very different for your species, depending on the way they are able to perceive gravitation, velocity, mass, etc. For example, the early optical telescope would be useless to them but they would have the capacity to notice the effect of the orbit of the moon in the Earth's magnetic field.



    From this humble beginnings, they could develop a different type of orbital mechanics perhaps slower, perhaps faster than humans did. Unfortunately we know very little about magnetoreception to describe a mechanism in detail, but we do know in some materials "magnetic fields can change the way the charged particles (mainly electrons) respond to the light electromagnetic field". On one side, some phenomena that remained a mistery to humans for millions of years would be a part of everyday life for your aliens...



    On the other side, with enough tools and technology, your aliens could build themselves some device to perceive light talking advantage of the polarization of light in a similar way in which we have built a ton of things to measure magnetic fields.



    PD I don't think sound is relevant for space travel because it doesn't travel in a vacuum.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$





















      1












      $begingroup$


      But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos.




      Really? Or is it just necessary that they be spatially aware?



      Open your mind. It will take more work on your part, but you can explain it.



      We cannot see X-Rays, but we discovered them... and then figured out how to make machines/devices that represented them in a form that we could understand (see them on photographic plates). And then discovered how they could be useful.



      Note that X-Ray radiation killed a lot of the early scientist studying it (via cancer) but that didn't stop them. We learned X-Rays, and then we learned new stuff, and now we have MRIs, use sound waves to measure blood flow, etc.



      The sun is easy to "see" without "vision".

      They would feel the warmth, even if they couldn't see it. (Or feel effects from it if you want it really far away)



      It might take longer to "see" the stars and moon(s) than the sun... but eventually a sentient species of sufficient intelligence would figure it out. First they figure out it is there, then they (eventually) figure out how to get a better view (however you decide that is possible).






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$





















        0












        $begingroup$

        It's well within the realm of possibilities. Vision is only necessary for us to because it is what we know. If your alien race's dominant senses are as effective for them, as sight is for us, then they could, quite possibly "sense" the nature of the cosmos in their own way.



        As humans, our technology has allowed us to overcome our physical limitations over and over again. If your aliens are intelligent enough to create sophisticated technology. And it evolves similar to ours, then (I would think) lack of sight should be an easy hurdle to jump.






        share|improve this answer








        New contributor




        matildalee23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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          9 Answers
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          15












          $begingroup$


          sight is necessary to understand the cosmos




          If with sight you mean "capability of elaborating electromagnetic waves in the range of the visible spectrum", the statement is simply wrong. We have just got the report that the first image of a black hole event horizon was taken thanks to observation in the radio-frequencies.



          So, no, sight is not strictly necessary to understand the cosmos. It is true that the broader spectrum one can analyze the more information can harvest, but lacking a fraction of the spectrum is no showstopper.



          Also on a human scale, several space missions have succeeded in exploring space without having a camera for exploration. Just think of the Sputnik: it didn't have a camera, so technically it was blind.



          And even we don't need to view something to understand it. Whoever takes calculus at a university level can describe your with extreme precision the properties of a multidimensional surface without visualizing it, just by studying the function representing it. And, if you object that calculus is not exactly a standard knowledge, even visually impaired people get a good understanding of the world without seeing it.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            I get your point, but you are talking about inanimate human-made objects, not a sentient lifeform. We still need to convert their data into visual representations to understand it
            $endgroup$
            – Liam00
            12 hours ago








          • 3




            $begingroup$
            @Liam00 Could your lifeforms possibly do the same? Use technology to convert visual data into a form they could "see"? Vision has physical components that can be replicated and although that cannot see light, they may sense evidence of its existance.
            $endgroup$
            – matildalee23
            11 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            would magno-reception pick up the sun?
            $endgroup$
            – John
            5 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @John, the OP specifically said, "magneto-reception, like birds on Earth." That isn't vision, and it wouldn't pick up the sun no matter how sensitive.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            This answer could be improved if it addressed how a primitive culture might discover the existence of outer space without the capacity for vision. Magnetic sensitivity wouldn't enable them to detect cosmic radio waves, nor would echolocation provide any information about the conditions miles above their heads. A good analogy would be to consider how a colorblind person could be made to understand what color is.
            $endgroup$
            – MikeB
            3 hours ago


















          15












          $begingroup$


          sight is necessary to understand the cosmos




          If with sight you mean "capability of elaborating electromagnetic waves in the range of the visible spectrum", the statement is simply wrong. We have just got the report that the first image of a black hole event horizon was taken thanks to observation in the radio-frequencies.



          So, no, sight is not strictly necessary to understand the cosmos. It is true that the broader spectrum one can analyze the more information can harvest, but lacking a fraction of the spectrum is no showstopper.



          Also on a human scale, several space missions have succeeded in exploring space without having a camera for exploration. Just think of the Sputnik: it didn't have a camera, so technically it was blind.



          And even we don't need to view something to understand it. Whoever takes calculus at a university level can describe your with extreme precision the properties of a multidimensional surface without visualizing it, just by studying the function representing it. And, if you object that calculus is not exactly a standard knowledge, even visually impaired people get a good understanding of the world without seeing it.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            I get your point, but you are talking about inanimate human-made objects, not a sentient lifeform. We still need to convert their data into visual representations to understand it
            $endgroup$
            – Liam00
            12 hours ago








          • 3




            $begingroup$
            @Liam00 Could your lifeforms possibly do the same? Use technology to convert visual data into a form they could "see"? Vision has physical components that can be replicated and although that cannot see light, they may sense evidence of its existance.
            $endgroup$
            – matildalee23
            11 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            would magno-reception pick up the sun?
            $endgroup$
            – John
            5 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @John, the OP specifically said, "magneto-reception, like birds on Earth." That isn't vision, and it wouldn't pick up the sun no matter how sensitive.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            This answer could be improved if it addressed how a primitive culture might discover the existence of outer space without the capacity for vision. Magnetic sensitivity wouldn't enable them to detect cosmic radio waves, nor would echolocation provide any information about the conditions miles above their heads. A good analogy would be to consider how a colorblind person could be made to understand what color is.
            $endgroup$
            – MikeB
            3 hours ago
















          15












          15








          15





          $begingroup$


          sight is necessary to understand the cosmos




          If with sight you mean "capability of elaborating electromagnetic waves in the range of the visible spectrum", the statement is simply wrong. We have just got the report that the first image of a black hole event horizon was taken thanks to observation in the radio-frequencies.



          So, no, sight is not strictly necessary to understand the cosmos. It is true that the broader spectrum one can analyze the more information can harvest, but lacking a fraction of the spectrum is no showstopper.



          Also on a human scale, several space missions have succeeded in exploring space without having a camera for exploration. Just think of the Sputnik: it didn't have a camera, so technically it was blind.



          And even we don't need to view something to understand it. Whoever takes calculus at a university level can describe your with extreme precision the properties of a multidimensional surface without visualizing it, just by studying the function representing it. And, if you object that calculus is not exactly a standard knowledge, even visually impaired people get a good understanding of the world without seeing it.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$




          sight is necessary to understand the cosmos




          If with sight you mean "capability of elaborating electromagnetic waves in the range of the visible spectrum", the statement is simply wrong. We have just got the report that the first image of a black hole event horizon was taken thanks to observation in the radio-frequencies.



          So, no, sight is not strictly necessary to understand the cosmos. It is true that the broader spectrum one can analyze the more information can harvest, but lacking a fraction of the spectrum is no showstopper.



          Also on a human scale, several space missions have succeeded in exploring space without having a camera for exploration. Just think of the Sputnik: it didn't have a camera, so technically it was blind.



          And even we don't need to view something to understand it. Whoever takes calculus at a university level can describe your with extreme precision the properties of a multidimensional surface without visualizing it, just by studying the function representing it. And, if you object that calculus is not exactly a standard knowledge, even visually impaired people get a good understanding of the world without seeing it.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 12 hours ago

























          answered 13 hours ago









          L.DutchL.Dutch

          91.1k29211438




          91.1k29211438












          • $begingroup$
            I get your point, but you are talking about inanimate human-made objects, not a sentient lifeform. We still need to convert their data into visual representations to understand it
            $endgroup$
            – Liam00
            12 hours ago








          • 3




            $begingroup$
            @Liam00 Could your lifeforms possibly do the same? Use technology to convert visual data into a form they could "see"? Vision has physical components that can be replicated and although that cannot see light, they may sense evidence of its existance.
            $endgroup$
            – matildalee23
            11 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            would magno-reception pick up the sun?
            $endgroup$
            – John
            5 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @John, the OP specifically said, "magneto-reception, like birds on Earth." That isn't vision, and it wouldn't pick up the sun no matter how sensitive.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            This answer could be improved if it addressed how a primitive culture might discover the existence of outer space without the capacity for vision. Magnetic sensitivity wouldn't enable them to detect cosmic radio waves, nor would echolocation provide any information about the conditions miles above their heads. A good analogy would be to consider how a colorblind person could be made to understand what color is.
            $endgroup$
            – MikeB
            3 hours ago




















          • $begingroup$
            I get your point, but you are talking about inanimate human-made objects, not a sentient lifeform. We still need to convert their data into visual representations to understand it
            $endgroup$
            – Liam00
            12 hours ago








          • 3




            $begingroup$
            @Liam00 Could your lifeforms possibly do the same? Use technology to convert visual data into a form they could "see"? Vision has physical components that can be replicated and although that cannot see light, they may sense evidence of its existance.
            $endgroup$
            – matildalee23
            11 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            would magno-reception pick up the sun?
            $endgroup$
            – John
            5 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @John, the OP specifically said, "magneto-reception, like birds on Earth." That isn't vision, and it wouldn't pick up the sun no matter how sensitive.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            This answer could be improved if it addressed how a primitive culture might discover the existence of outer space without the capacity for vision. Magnetic sensitivity wouldn't enable them to detect cosmic radio waves, nor would echolocation provide any information about the conditions miles above their heads. A good analogy would be to consider how a colorblind person could be made to understand what color is.
            $endgroup$
            – MikeB
            3 hours ago


















          $begingroup$
          I get your point, but you are talking about inanimate human-made objects, not a sentient lifeform. We still need to convert their data into visual representations to understand it
          $endgroup$
          – Liam00
          12 hours ago






          $begingroup$
          I get your point, but you are talking about inanimate human-made objects, not a sentient lifeform. We still need to convert their data into visual representations to understand it
          $endgroup$
          – Liam00
          12 hours ago






          3




          3




          $begingroup$
          @Liam00 Could your lifeforms possibly do the same? Use technology to convert visual data into a form they could "see"? Vision has physical components that can be replicated and although that cannot see light, they may sense evidence of its existance.
          $endgroup$
          – matildalee23
          11 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @Liam00 Could your lifeforms possibly do the same? Use technology to convert visual data into a form they could "see"? Vision has physical components that can be replicated and although that cannot see light, they may sense evidence of its existance.
          $endgroup$
          – matildalee23
          11 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          would magno-reception pick up the sun?
          $endgroup$
          – John
          5 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          would magno-reception pick up the sun?
          $endgroup$
          – John
          5 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          @John, the OP specifically said, "magneto-reception, like birds on Earth." That isn't vision, and it wouldn't pick up the sun no matter how sensitive.
          $endgroup$
          – JBH
          4 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @John, the OP specifically said, "magneto-reception, like birds on Earth." That isn't vision, and it wouldn't pick up the sun no matter how sensitive.
          $endgroup$
          – JBH
          4 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          This answer could be improved if it addressed how a primitive culture might discover the existence of outer space without the capacity for vision. Magnetic sensitivity wouldn't enable them to detect cosmic radio waves, nor would echolocation provide any information about the conditions miles above their heads. A good analogy would be to consider how a colorblind person could be made to understand what color is.
          $endgroup$
          – MikeB
          3 hours ago






          $begingroup$
          This answer could be improved if it addressed how a primitive culture might discover the existence of outer space without the capacity for vision. Magnetic sensitivity wouldn't enable them to detect cosmic radio waves, nor would echolocation provide any information about the conditions miles above their heads. A good analogy would be to consider how a colorblind person could be made to understand what color is.
          $endgroup$
          – MikeB
          3 hours ago













          7












          $begingroup$

          "We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task." is quickly debunked by even the briefest consideration of lives of blind scientists here on earth.



          Human's lack of natural ability to see x-rays has not diminished our capacity to detect, measure, utilize, and interact with x-rays.



          If a society develops to the point of being able to produce electronics and radio technology, then they will have little trouble "discovering" the stars. If they cannot 'see' something naturally, then they will be able to build tools and systems to translate emissions into a data-stream that they can interact with. Exactly the same as humans have done.



          Can't see something in nature? Observe its effects as it interacts with something else that you can detect, and use that property to study the phenomenon.



          Can't see x-rays? Observe how they cause some materials for fluoresce when struck with x-rays, and use that to explore, study, and refine how you can interact with them.



          Can't see anything? Observe how light interacts with specific electronics, and develop a photo-diode or similar to construct tones or vibrations that you can observe, and build that into greater and more refined sensing technology.



          You may wish to consider the fact that earth has blind astronomers. There is far more to space related research than being able to see it with your own eyes.



          To reinforce how a human's visual senses are just a small part of how we observe the world, consider primitive interactions with fire. What are the main points to observe about fire?




          • It is bright

          • It makes a loud crackling sound

          • It emits heat that can be felt at a distance, and a LOT of heat that can be felt if touching it directly.

          • It emits smells based on what is burning and how it is burning

          • It changes the look and texture of material it consumes


          Two of those points involve sight, three if you count smoke, and four of the five directly involve other senses.



          Sight may be useful in learning about fire, but is not required to learn and understand it from a scientific standpoint.



          Vision isn't even all that involved in learning to make fire. If you've ever tried using friction and sticks to start a fire, what is the first thing you observe? Do you see that you're beginning to "start a fire"? Of course not, as the first thing you'll observe is that rubbing things can make them warm.



          As an experiment: Close your eyes and rub your hands together really hard and fast.



          Open your eyes and let your hands cool off, and repeat the same experiment, but this time watch it.



          Did being able to see it make it any easier to observe the heat?



          Probably not - Because human vision doesn't do much with regards to heat...



          So go back to starting a fire with sticks. What is the next thing you observe as you come closer to starting a fire?




          • See sparks? No


          • Smell a change in the wood? Yes.


          Unless your sense of smell is especially bad, even by human standards, you will smell a change before you even see wisps of smoke. And by that point you will be able to feel a major change in the heat (And heat is related to fire...) far more than you will be able to see something that looks like fire...



          If you don't know any thing about starting a fire from sticks, then you might observe that it sometimes becomes easier to start the fire if you feel just the right amount of wind coming from the right direction, and you can quickly learn more about how air is related to fire.



          But that was all just how you can observe fire without relying heavily on vision. What about something else important to really advancing science, like electricity?



          Primitive interactions include things like:
          - Static sparks: See the light, feel the shock.
          - Electromagnetism: Moves things, which may be felt or heard
          - Current through a wire creates Heat long before it creates visible light...



          -TL:DR -



          Vision very much helps with the advancement of science. (And would make for a far more rapid advancement through early metal-ages with far fewer nasty burns...) But it is very far from a requirement for an individual or even a species to achieve great scientific advancements.



          [Ironically, signing off: - A Visually Impaired Scientist...]






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$









          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Hmmm... our ability to detect and manipulate X-rays came from our investigation of light which came as a result of sight. Can you justify how X-rays can be detected without sight? This sounds like illogical logic. I'm not entirely convinced a sightless person, regardless what other senses they have, can develop electronics (or anything having to do with electromagnetics). "If a society develops..." doesn't justify "therefore they can."
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            X-rays are on the same overall spectrum as visible light, which along with infrared - If they can feel the warmth of the sun, vs when they are in the cool of a shade, then they have a sensory foundation to begin exploring that field of science. Electromagnetic sciences can be discovered through sound: When magnets collide they make a sound - Why does that thing make a sound and make stuff move? ... SCIENCE! > An excuse to explore, learn, and experiment.
            $endgroup$
            – TheLuckless
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            You're looking at this from the perspective of a sighted person. What they can feel is heat, such as heat from a volcano or a hot spring, which they can experience and understand. It's a massive leap from that to, "there must be a sun!" which they cannot experience and cannot understand.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago












          • $begingroup$
            For the fun of the discussion, let me walk you through something. A blind person's first experience with lightning-generated fire. They know nothing about lightning, all they know is something went "boom!" They know nothing about fire, all they know is they got burned when they got too close. They can't see the destructive force of fire, but they could touch/taste the charcoal remains. How do they get from this to rubbing two sticks together? It's not obvious at all that they ever could. And you need to do that long before space travel.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Find fire in nature? - Well, you can Hear it, and FEEL the heat from it. You can feel it burning if you get too close to it. You can (hopefully quickly) learn about the damaging effects it has if you get too close to it. You can learn hot things can cause fire, and in turn figure out "Things that makes stuff hot"... > Continue train of thought to SCIENCE! and progression.
            $endgroup$
            – TheLuckless
            4 hours ago
















          7












          $begingroup$

          "We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task." is quickly debunked by even the briefest consideration of lives of blind scientists here on earth.



          Human's lack of natural ability to see x-rays has not diminished our capacity to detect, measure, utilize, and interact with x-rays.



          If a society develops to the point of being able to produce electronics and radio technology, then they will have little trouble "discovering" the stars. If they cannot 'see' something naturally, then they will be able to build tools and systems to translate emissions into a data-stream that they can interact with. Exactly the same as humans have done.



          Can't see something in nature? Observe its effects as it interacts with something else that you can detect, and use that property to study the phenomenon.



          Can't see x-rays? Observe how they cause some materials for fluoresce when struck with x-rays, and use that to explore, study, and refine how you can interact with them.



          Can't see anything? Observe how light interacts with specific electronics, and develop a photo-diode or similar to construct tones or vibrations that you can observe, and build that into greater and more refined sensing technology.



          You may wish to consider the fact that earth has blind astronomers. There is far more to space related research than being able to see it with your own eyes.



          To reinforce how a human's visual senses are just a small part of how we observe the world, consider primitive interactions with fire. What are the main points to observe about fire?




          • It is bright

          • It makes a loud crackling sound

          • It emits heat that can be felt at a distance, and a LOT of heat that can be felt if touching it directly.

          • It emits smells based on what is burning and how it is burning

          • It changes the look and texture of material it consumes


          Two of those points involve sight, three if you count smoke, and four of the five directly involve other senses.



          Sight may be useful in learning about fire, but is not required to learn and understand it from a scientific standpoint.



          Vision isn't even all that involved in learning to make fire. If you've ever tried using friction and sticks to start a fire, what is the first thing you observe? Do you see that you're beginning to "start a fire"? Of course not, as the first thing you'll observe is that rubbing things can make them warm.



          As an experiment: Close your eyes and rub your hands together really hard and fast.



          Open your eyes and let your hands cool off, and repeat the same experiment, but this time watch it.



          Did being able to see it make it any easier to observe the heat?



          Probably not - Because human vision doesn't do much with regards to heat...



          So go back to starting a fire with sticks. What is the next thing you observe as you come closer to starting a fire?




          • See sparks? No


          • Smell a change in the wood? Yes.


          Unless your sense of smell is especially bad, even by human standards, you will smell a change before you even see wisps of smoke. And by that point you will be able to feel a major change in the heat (And heat is related to fire...) far more than you will be able to see something that looks like fire...



          If you don't know any thing about starting a fire from sticks, then you might observe that it sometimes becomes easier to start the fire if you feel just the right amount of wind coming from the right direction, and you can quickly learn more about how air is related to fire.



          But that was all just how you can observe fire without relying heavily on vision. What about something else important to really advancing science, like electricity?



          Primitive interactions include things like:
          - Static sparks: See the light, feel the shock.
          - Electromagnetism: Moves things, which may be felt or heard
          - Current through a wire creates Heat long before it creates visible light...



          -TL:DR -



          Vision very much helps with the advancement of science. (And would make for a far more rapid advancement through early metal-ages with far fewer nasty burns...) But it is very far from a requirement for an individual or even a species to achieve great scientific advancements.



          [Ironically, signing off: - A Visually Impaired Scientist...]






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$









          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Hmmm... our ability to detect and manipulate X-rays came from our investigation of light which came as a result of sight. Can you justify how X-rays can be detected without sight? This sounds like illogical logic. I'm not entirely convinced a sightless person, regardless what other senses they have, can develop electronics (or anything having to do with electromagnetics). "If a society develops..." doesn't justify "therefore they can."
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            X-rays are on the same overall spectrum as visible light, which along with infrared - If they can feel the warmth of the sun, vs when they are in the cool of a shade, then they have a sensory foundation to begin exploring that field of science. Electromagnetic sciences can be discovered through sound: When magnets collide they make a sound - Why does that thing make a sound and make stuff move? ... SCIENCE! > An excuse to explore, learn, and experiment.
            $endgroup$
            – TheLuckless
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            You're looking at this from the perspective of a sighted person. What they can feel is heat, such as heat from a volcano or a hot spring, which they can experience and understand. It's a massive leap from that to, "there must be a sun!" which they cannot experience and cannot understand.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago












          • $begingroup$
            For the fun of the discussion, let me walk you through something. A blind person's first experience with lightning-generated fire. They know nothing about lightning, all they know is something went "boom!" They know nothing about fire, all they know is they got burned when they got too close. They can't see the destructive force of fire, but they could touch/taste the charcoal remains. How do they get from this to rubbing two sticks together? It's not obvious at all that they ever could. And you need to do that long before space travel.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Find fire in nature? - Well, you can Hear it, and FEEL the heat from it. You can feel it burning if you get too close to it. You can (hopefully quickly) learn about the damaging effects it has if you get too close to it. You can learn hot things can cause fire, and in turn figure out "Things that makes stuff hot"... > Continue train of thought to SCIENCE! and progression.
            $endgroup$
            – TheLuckless
            4 hours ago














          7












          7








          7





          $begingroup$

          "We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task." is quickly debunked by even the briefest consideration of lives of blind scientists here on earth.



          Human's lack of natural ability to see x-rays has not diminished our capacity to detect, measure, utilize, and interact with x-rays.



          If a society develops to the point of being able to produce electronics and radio technology, then they will have little trouble "discovering" the stars. If they cannot 'see' something naturally, then they will be able to build tools and systems to translate emissions into a data-stream that they can interact with. Exactly the same as humans have done.



          Can't see something in nature? Observe its effects as it interacts with something else that you can detect, and use that property to study the phenomenon.



          Can't see x-rays? Observe how they cause some materials for fluoresce when struck with x-rays, and use that to explore, study, and refine how you can interact with them.



          Can't see anything? Observe how light interacts with specific electronics, and develop a photo-diode or similar to construct tones or vibrations that you can observe, and build that into greater and more refined sensing technology.



          You may wish to consider the fact that earth has blind astronomers. There is far more to space related research than being able to see it with your own eyes.



          To reinforce how a human's visual senses are just a small part of how we observe the world, consider primitive interactions with fire. What are the main points to observe about fire?




          • It is bright

          • It makes a loud crackling sound

          • It emits heat that can be felt at a distance, and a LOT of heat that can be felt if touching it directly.

          • It emits smells based on what is burning and how it is burning

          • It changes the look and texture of material it consumes


          Two of those points involve sight, three if you count smoke, and four of the five directly involve other senses.



          Sight may be useful in learning about fire, but is not required to learn and understand it from a scientific standpoint.



          Vision isn't even all that involved in learning to make fire. If you've ever tried using friction and sticks to start a fire, what is the first thing you observe? Do you see that you're beginning to "start a fire"? Of course not, as the first thing you'll observe is that rubbing things can make them warm.



          As an experiment: Close your eyes and rub your hands together really hard and fast.



          Open your eyes and let your hands cool off, and repeat the same experiment, but this time watch it.



          Did being able to see it make it any easier to observe the heat?



          Probably not - Because human vision doesn't do much with regards to heat...



          So go back to starting a fire with sticks. What is the next thing you observe as you come closer to starting a fire?




          • See sparks? No


          • Smell a change in the wood? Yes.


          Unless your sense of smell is especially bad, even by human standards, you will smell a change before you even see wisps of smoke. And by that point you will be able to feel a major change in the heat (And heat is related to fire...) far more than you will be able to see something that looks like fire...



          If you don't know any thing about starting a fire from sticks, then you might observe that it sometimes becomes easier to start the fire if you feel just the right amount of wind coming from the right direction, and you can quickly learn more about how air is related to fire.



          But that was all just how you can observe fire without relying heavily on vision. What about something else important to really advancing science, like electricity?



          Primitive interactions include things like:
          - Static sparks: See the light, feel the shock.
          - Electromagnetism: Moves things, which may be felt or heard
          - Current through a wire creates Heat long before it creates visible light...



          -TL:DR -



          Vision very much helps with the advancement of science. (And would make for a far more rapid advancement through early metal-ages with far fewer nasty burns...) But it is very far from a requirement for an individual or even a species to achieve great scientific advancements.



          [Ironically, signing off: - A Visually Impaired Scientist...]






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          "We need to see things in order to accomplish even the simplest task." is quickly debunked by even the briefest consideration of lives of blind scientists here on earth.



          Human's lack of natural ability to see x-rays has not diminished our capacity to detect, measure, utilize, and interact with x-rays.



          If a society develops to the point of being able to produce electronics and radio technology, then they will have little trouble "discovering" the stars. If they cannot 'see' something naturally, then they will be able to build tools and systems to translate emissions into a data-stream that they can interact with. Exactly the same as humans have done.



          Can't see something in nature? Observe its effects as it interacts with something else that you can detect, and use that property to study the phenomenon.



          Can't see x-rays? Observe how they cause some materials for fluoresce when struck with x-rays, and use that to explore, study, and refine how you can interact with them.



          Can't see anything? Observe how light interacts with specific electronics, and develop a photo-diode or similar to construct tones or vibrations that you can observe, and build that into greater and more refined sensing technology.



          You may wish to consider the fact that earth has blind astronomers. There is far more to space related research than being able to see it with your own eyes.



          To reinforce how a human's visual senses are just a small part of how we observe the world, consider primitive interactions with fire. What are the main points to observe about fire?




          • It is bright

          • It makes a loud crackling sound

          • It emits heat that can be felt at a distance, and a LOT of heat that can be felt if touching it directly.

          • It emits smells based on what is burning and how it is burning

          • It changes the look and texture of material it consumes


          Two of those points involve sight, three if you count smoke, and four of the five directly involve other senses.



          Sight may be useful in learning about fire, but is not required to learn and understand it from a scientific standpoint.



          Vision isn't even all that involved in learning to make fire. If you've ever tried using friction and sticks to start a fire, what is the first thing you observe? Do you see that you're beginning to "start a fire"? Of course not, as the first thing you'll observe is that rubbing things can make them warm.



          As an experiment: Close your eyes and rub your hands together really hard and fast.



          Open your eyes and let your hands cool off, and repeat the same experiment, but this time watch it.



          Did being able to see it make it any easier to observe the heat?



          Probably not - Because human vision doesn't do much with regards to heat...



          So go back to starting a fire with sticks. What is the next thing you observe as you come closer to starting a fire?




          • See sparks? No


          • Smell a change in the wood? Yes.


          Unless your sense of smell is especially bad, even by human standards, you will smell a change before you even see wisps of smoke. And by that point you will be able to feel a major change in the heat (And heat is related to fire...) far more than you will be able to see something that looks like fire...



          If you don't know any thing about starting a fire from sticks, then you might observe that it sometimes becomes easier to start the fire if you feel just the right amount of wind coming from the right direction, and you can quickly learn more about how air is related to fire.



          But that was all just how you can observe fire without relying heavily on vision. What about something else important to really advancing science, like electricity?



          Primitive interactions include things like:
          - Static sparks: See the light, feel the shock.
          - Electromagnetism: Moves things, which may be felt or heard
          - Current through a wire creates Heat long before it creates visible light...



          -TL:DR -



          Vision very much helps with the advancement of science. (And would make for a far more rapid advancement through early metal-ages with far fewer nasty burns...) But it is very far from a requirement for an individual or even a species to achieve great scientific advancements.



          [Ironically, signing off: - A Visually Impaired Scientist...]







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 1 hour ago

























          answered 10 hours ago









          TheLucklessTheLuckless

          89417




          89417








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Hmmm... our ability to detect and manipulate X-rays came from our investigation of light which came as a result of sight. Can you justify how X-rays can be detected without sight? This sounds like illogical logic. I'm not entirely convinced a sightless person, regardless what other senses they have, can develop electronics (or anything having to do with electromagnetics). "If a society develops..." doesn't justify "therefore they can."
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            X-rays are on the same overall spectrum as visible light, which along with infrared - If they can feel the warmth of the sun, vs when they are in the cool of a shade, then they have a sensory foundation to begin exploring that field of science. Electromagnetic sciences can be discovered through sound: When magnets collide they make a sound - Why does that thing make a sound and make stuff move? ... SCIENCE! > An excuse to explore, learn, and experiment.
            $endgroup$
            – TheLuckless
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            You're looking at this from the perspective of a sighted person. What they can feel is heat, such as heat from a volcano or a hot spring, which they can experience and understand. It's a massive leap from that to, "there must be a sun!" which they cannot experience and cannot understand.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago












          • $begingroup$
            For the fun of the discussion, let me walk you through something. A blind person's first experience with lightning-generated fire. They know nothing about lightning, all they know is something went "boom!" They know nothing about fire, all they know is they got burned when they got too close. They can't see the destructive force of fire, but they could touch/taste the charcoal remains. How do they get from this to rubbing two sticks together? It's not obvious at all that they ever could. And you need to do that long before space travel.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Find fire in nature? - Well, you can Hear it, and FEEL the heat from it. You can feel it burning if you get too close to it. You can (hopefully quickly) learn about the damaging effects it has if you get too close to it. You can learn hot things can cause fire, and in turn figure out "Things that makes stuff hot"... > Continue train of thought to SCIENCE! and progression.
            $endgroup$
            – TheLuckless
            4 hours ago














          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Hmmm... our ability to detect and manipulate X-rays came from our investigation of light which came as a result of sight. Can you justify how X-rays can be detected without sight? This sounds like illogical logic. I'm not entirely convinced a sightless person, regardless what other senses they have, can develop electronics (or anything having to do with electromagnetics). "If a society develops..." doesn't justify "therefore they can."
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            X-rays are on the same overall spectrum as visible light, which along with infrared - If they can feel the warmth of the sun, vs when they are in the cool of a shade, then they have a sensory foundation to begin exploring that field of science. Electromagnetic sciences can be discovered through sound: When magnets collide they make a sound - Why does that thing make a sound and make stuff move? ... SCIENCE! > An excuse to explore, learn, and experiment.
            $endgroup$
            – TheLuckless
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            You're looking at this from the perspective of a sighted person. What they can feel is heat, such as heat from a volcano or a hot spring, which they can experience and understand. It's a massive leap from that to, "there must be a sun!" which they cannot experience and cannot understand.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago












          • $begingroup$
            For the fun of the discussion, let me walk you through something. A blind person's first experience with lightning-generated fire. They know nothing about lightning, all they know is something went "boom!" They know nothing about fire, all they know is they got burned when they got too close. They can't see the destructive force of fire, but they could touch/taste the charcoal remains. How do they get from this to rubbing two sticks together? It's not obvious at all that they ever could. And you need to do that long before space travel.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Find fire in nature? - Well, you can Hear it, and FEEL the heat from it. You can feel it burning if you get too close to it. You can (hopefully quickly) learn about the damaging effects it has if you get too close to it. You can learn hot things can cause fire, and in turn figure out "Things that makes stuff hot"... > Continue train of thought to SCIENCE! and progression.
            $endgroup$
            – TheLuckless
            4 hours ago








          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          Hmmm... our ability to detect and manipulate X-rays came from our investigation of light which came as a result of sight. Can you justify how X-rays can be detected without sight? This sounds like illogical logic. I'm not entirely convinced a sightless person, regardless what other senses they have, can develop electronics (or anything having to do with electromagnetics). "If a society develops..." doesn't justify "therefore they can."
          $endgroup$
          – JBH
          4 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Hmmm... our ability to detect and manipulate X-rays came from our investigation of light which came as a result of sight. Can you justify how X-rays can be detected without sight? This sounds like illogical logic. I'm not entirely convinced a sightless person, regardless what other senses they have, can develop electronics (or anything having to do with electromagnetics). "If a society develops..." doesn't justify "therefore they can."
          $endgroup$
          – JBH
          4 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          X-rays are on the same overall spectrum as visible light, which along with infrared - If they can feel the warmth of the sun, vs when they are in the cool of a shade, then they have a sensory foundation to begin exploring that field of science. Electromagnetic sciences can be discovered through sound: When magnets collide they make a sound - Why does that thing make a sound and make stuff move? ... SCIENCE! > An excuse to explore, learn, and experiment.
          $endgroup$
          – TheLuckless
          4 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          X-rays are on the same overall spectrum as visible light, which along with infrared - If they can feel the warmth of the sun, vs when they are in the cool of a shade, then they have a sensory foundation to begin exploring that field of science. Electromagnetic sciences can be discovered through sound: When magnets collide they make a sound - Why does that thing make a sound and make stuff move? ... SCIENCE! > An excuse to explore, learn, and experiment.
          $endgroup$
          – TheLuckless
          4 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          You're looking at this from the perspective of a sighted person. What they can feel is heat, such as heat from a volcano or a hot spring, which they can experience and understand. It's a massive leap from that to, "there must be a sun!" which they cannot experience and cannot understand.
          $endgroup$
          – JBH
          4 hours ago






          $begingroup$
          You're looking at this from the perspective of a sighted person. What they can feel is heat, such as heat from a volcano or a hot spring, which they can experience and understand. It's a massive leap from that to, "there must be a sun!" which they cannot experience and cannot understand.
          $endgroup$
          – JBH
          4 hours ago














          $begingroup$
          For the fun of the discussion, let me walk you through something. A blind person's first experience with lightning-generated fire. They know nothing about lightning, all they know is something went "boom!" They know nothing about fire, all they know is they got burned when they got too close. They can't see the destructive force of fire, but they could touch/taste the charcoal remains. How do they get from this to rubbing two sticks together? It's not obvious at all that they ever could. And you need to do that long before space travel.
          $endgroup$
          – JBH
          4 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          For the fun of the discussion, let me walk you through something. A blind person's first experience with lightning-generated fire. They know nothing about lightning, all they know is something went "boom!" They know nothing about fire, all they know is they got burned when they got too close. They can't see the destructive force of fire, but they could touch/taste the charcoal remains. How do they get from this to rubbing two sticks together? It's not obvious at all that they ever could. And you need to do that long before space travel.
          $endgroup$
          – JBH
          4 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          Find fire in nature? - Well, you can Hear it, and FEEL the heat from it. You can feel it burning if you get too close to it. You can (hopefully quickly) learn about the damaging effects it has if you get too close to it. You can learn hot things can cause fire, and in turn figure out "Things that makes stuff hot"... > Continue train of thought to SCIENCE! and progression.
          $endgroup$
          – TheLuckless
          4 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Find fire in nature? - Well, you can Hear it, and FEEL the heat from it. You can feel it burning if you get too close to it. You can (hopefully quickly) learn about the damaging effects it has if you get too close to it. You can learn hot things can cause fire, and in turn figure out "Things that makes stuff hot"... > Continue train of thought to SCIENCE! and progression.
          $endgroup$
          – TheLuckless
          4 hours ago











          5












          $begingroup$

          I think your aliens would be better adapted to space exploration than humans are.



          Echo location is a spatial sense. It gives you directions and distances and via Doppler shift changes in distances. A species with a sense like that would be able to understand something like the solar system much better than a species that relies on a planar sense tricked up to boost hand eye coordination so that you do not fall out of a tree.



          It also maps directly into radar which works with exact same principles and has exact same limitations and advantages. Except it works in space. And radar is a human version so it needs a conversion to something us poor humans can understand. Your aliens would do much better since they would understand all the data about spatial data and movement directly.



          You'd need an "echo display" that gives the proper audio response based on computer data and the sounds it receives but apart from being larger and lower resolution that visual analogues it is not that complex.



          Generally changing vision to echo location loses things useless for space exploration such as ability to see detail and color and gives useful things such as better spatial sense and sense of motion.



          And they also have a superior magnetic field sense. They could sense the planetary magnetic field, large ferrous objects moving in it, the direction the solar wind is coming from. They'd probably know where the sun is even at night.



          In space they'd probably feel the solar magnetic field. Certainly the ship could have systems to allow them to do so. And to feel the movement of the ship and even the movements of the planets. Or other ships. And then there is the glorious stuff elemtilas talks about.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Excellent response! But I have a question: how does this species know there's anything Out There to begin with? Echolocation only works in a medium (like water or air) --- it's sound waves.
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @elemtilas They can feel the sun. Both the heat like humans can but also the way the magnetic field changes. Also they'd probably figure out that air is less dense higher up and then wonder up what happens when the air "runs out". It should be obvious that the sun is outside of atmosphere. But seriously it would probably happen organically as technology develops. A moon like we have could be deduced from the tides but the rest would be discovered with technology like we found galaxies and other star systems.
            $endgroup$
            – Ville Niemi
            2 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Sorry I missed the bit about sensing the magnetic fields!
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            1 hour ago
















          5












          $begingroup$

          I think your aliens would be better adapted to space exploration than humans are.



          Echo location is a spatial sense. It gives you directions and distances and via Doppler shift changes in distances. A species with a sense like that would be able to understand something like the solar system much better than a species that relies on a planar sense tricked up to boost hand eye coordination so that you do not fall out of a tree.



          It also maps directly into radar which works with exact same principles and has exact same limitations and advantages. Except it works in space. And radar is a human version so it needs a conversion to something us poor humans can understand. Your aliens would do much better since they would understand all the data about spatial data and movement directly.



          You'd need an "echo display" that gives the proper audio response based on computer data and the sounds it receives but apart from being larger and lower resolution that visual analogues it is not that complex.



          Generally changing vision to echo location loses things useless for space exploration such as ability to see detail and color and gives useful things such as better spatial sense and sense of motion.



          And they also have a superior magnetic field sense. They could sense the planetary magnetic field, large ferrous objects moving in it, the direction the solar wind is coming from. They'd probably know where the sun is even at night.



          In space they'd probably feel the solar magnetic field. Certainly the ship could have systems to allow them to do so. And to feel the movement of the ship and even the movements of the planets. Or other ships. And then there is the glorious stuff elemtilas talks about.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Excellent response! But I have a question: how does this species know there's anything Out There to begin with? Echolocation only works in a medium (like water or air) --- it's sound waves.
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @elemtilas They can feel the sun. Both the heat like humans can but also the way the magnetic field changes. Also they'd probably figure out that air is less dense higher up and then wonder up what happens when the air "runs out". It should be obvious that the sun is outside of atmosphere. But seriously it would probably happen organically as technology develops. A moon like we have could be deduced from the tides but the rest would be discovered with technology like we found galaxies and other star systems.
            $endgroup$
            – Ville Niemi
            2 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Sorry I missed the bit about sensing the magnetic fields!
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            1 hour ago














          5












          5








          5





          $begingroup$

          I think your aliens would be better adapted to space exploration than humans are.



          Echo location is a spatial sense. It gives you directions and distances and via Doppler shift changes in distances. A species with a sense like that would be able to understand something like the solar system much better than a species that relies on a planar sense tricked up to boost hand eye coordination so that you do not fall out of a tree.



          It also maps directly into radar which works with exact same principles and has exact same limitations and advantages. Except it works in space. And radar is a human version so it needs a conversion to something us poor humans can understand. Your aliens would do much better since they would understand all the data about spatial data and movement directly.



          You'd need an "echo display" that gives the proper audio response based on computer data and the sounds it receives but apart from being larger and lower resolution that visual analogues it is not that complex.



          Generally changing vision to echo location loses things useless for space exploration such as ability to see detail and color and gives useful things such as better spatial sense and sense of motion.



          And they also have a superior magnetic field sense. They could sense the planetary magnetic field, large ferrous objects moving in it, the direction the solar wind is coming from. They'd probably know where the sun is even at night.



          In space they'd probably feel the solar magnetic field. Certainly the ship could have systems to allow them to do so. And to feel the movement of the ship and even the movements of the planets. Or other ships. And then there is the glorious stuff elemtilas talks about.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          I think your aliens would be better adapted to space exploration than humans are.



          Echo location is a spatial sense. It gives you directions and distances and via Doppler shift changes in distances. A species with a sense like that would be able to understand something like the solar system much better than a species that relies on a planar sense tricked up to boost hand eye coordination so that you do not fall out of a tree.



          It also maps directly into radar which works with exact same principles and has exact same limitations and advantages. Except it works in space. And radar is a human version so it needs a conversion to something us poor humans can understand. Your aliens would do much better since they would understand all the data about spatial data and movement directly.



          You'd need an "echo display" that gives the proper audio response based on computer data and the sounds it receives but apart from being larger and lower resolution that visual analogues it is not that complex.



          Generally changing vision to echo location loses things useless for space exploration such as ability to see detail and color and gives useful things such as better spatial sense and sense of motion.



          And they also have a superior magnetic field sense. They could sense the planetary magnetic field, large ferrous objects moving in it, the direction the solar wind is coming from. They'd probably know where the sun is even at night.



          In space they'd probably feel the solar magnetic field. Certainly the ship could have systems to allow them to do so. And to feel the movement of the ship and even the movements of the planets. Or other ships. And then there is the glorious stuff elemtilas talks about.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 9 hours ago









          Ville NiemiVille Niemi

          35.2k260120




          35.2k260120












          • $begingroup$
            Excellent response! But I have a question: how does this species know there's anything Out There to begin with? Echolocation only works in a medium (like water or air) --- it's sound waves.
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @elemtilas They can feel the sun. Both the heat like humans can but also the way the magnetic field changes. Also they'd probably figure out that air is less dense higher up and then wonder up what happens when the air "runs out". It should be obvious that the sun is outside of atmosphere. But seriously it would probably happen organically as technology develops. A moon like we have could be deduced from the tides but the rest would be discovered with technology like we found galaxies and other star systems.
            $endgroup$
            – Ville Niemi
            2 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Sorry I missed the bit about sensing the magnetic fields!
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            1 hour ago


















          • $begingroup$
            Excellent response! But I have a question: how does this species know there's anything Out There to begin with? Echolocation only works in a medium (like water or air) --- it's sound waves.
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @elemtilas They can feel the sun. Both the heat like humans can but also the way the magnetic field changes. Also they'd probably figure out that air is less dense higher up and then wonder up what happens when the air "runs out". It should be obvious that the sun is outside of atmosphere. But seriously it would probably happen organically as technology develops. A moon like we have could be deduced from the tides but the rest would be discovered with technology like we found galaxies and other star systems.
            $endgroup$
            – Ville Niemi
            2 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Sorry I missed the bit about sensing the magnetic fields!
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            1 hour ago
















          $begingroup$
          Excellent response! But I have a question: how does this species know there's anything Out There to begin with? Echolocation only works in a medium (like water or air) --- it's sound waves.
          $endgroup$
          – elemtilas
          4 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Excellent response! But I have a question: how does this species know there's anything Out There to begin with? Echolocation only works in a medium (like water or air) --- it's sound waves.
          $endgroup$
          – elemtilas
          4 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          @elemtilas They can feel the sun. Both the heat like humans can but also the way the magnetic field changes. Also they'd probably figure out that air is less dense higher up and then wonder up what happens when the air "runs out". It should be obvious that the sun is outside of atmosphere. But seriously it would probably happen organically as technology develops. A moon like we have could be deduced from the tides but the rest would be discovered with technology like we found galaxies and other star systems.
          $endgroup$
          – Ville Niemi
          2 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @elemtilas They can feel the sun. Both the heat like humans can but also the way the magnetic field changes. Also they'd probably figure out that air is less dense higher up and then wonder up what happens when the air "runs out". It should be obvious that the sun is outside of atmosphere. But seriously it would probably happen organically as technology develops. A moon like we have could be deduced from the tides but the rest would be discovered with technology like we found galaxies and other star systems.
          $endgroup$
          – Ville Niemi
          2 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          Sorry I missed the bit about sensing the magnetic fields!
          $endgroup$
          – elemtilas
          1 hour ago




          $begingroup$
          Sorry I missed the bit about sensing the magnetic fields!
          $endgroup$
          – elemtilas
          1 hour ago











          4












          $begingroup$

          Of Course!



          That is, assuming these people have the intelligence, resources, sciences, temperament, desire, technological advancements, etc., etc.



          If you can see this in the sky:



          Our Magnetic Sun!



          And something like this orbits your planet:



          Our Magnetic Moon!!



          Then you're more than equipped to get out and take a good look at this:



          It's All Magnets From Here to Forever!!!



          All of those things should be "visible" to a species who can see magnetic fields the way we see light.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            "Magneto-reception, like birds on Earth" is not the ability to see magnetic fields.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @JBH Indeed --- but it's also "hundreds of times" better than what birds can do!
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Birds don't see magnetic lines. They merely sense it - like our sensing the passing of wind over our fingertips. I rarely downvote one of your answers, but this one I must. This isn't representing what the OP described.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @JBH --- As I said! It's "hundreds of times" better! The OP doesn't specify the actual nature & limitations of the sense in question, so I am presenting a possibility that will get the job done. I mean, birds' senses are pretty damn cool as they are. Keep in mind that our eyes evolved from a sensory patches that could basically detect light or dark. And now we can see colours and shapes and hues and detect movement and judge distances and all kinds of things with our eyes! If a species evolves from an ancestral form that can sense magnetic fields but is now hundreds of times more efficient...
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I see no reason not to postulate a sense that can "visualise" magnetic fields, and thus take in a broader spectrum of data. Obviously, I don't (and can't!) complain about the down vote --- I'm just happy you explained your rationale!
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago


















          4












          $begingroup$

          Of Course!



          That is, assuming these people have the intelligence, resources, sciences, temperament, desire, technological advancements, etc., etc.



          If you can see this in the sky:



          Our Magnetic Sun!



          And something like this orbits your planet:



          Our Magnetic Moon!!



          Then you're more than equipped to get out and take a good look at this:



          It's All Magnets From Here to Forever!!!



          All of those things should be "visible" to a species who can see magnetic fields the way we see light.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            "Magneto-reception, like birds on Earth" is not the ability to see magnetic fields.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @JBH Indeed --- but it's also "hundreds of times" better than what birds can do!
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Birds don't see magnetic lines. They merely sense it - like our sensing the passing of wind over our fingertips. I rarely downvote one of your answers, but this one I must. This isn't representing what the OP described.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @JBH --- As I said! It's "hundreds of times" better! The OP doesn't specify the actual nature & limitations of the sense in question, so I am presenting a possibility that will get the job done. I mean, birds' senses are pretty damn cool as they are. Keep in mind that our eyes evolved from a sensory patches that could basically detect light or dark. And now we can see colours and shapes and hues and detect movement and judge distances and all kinds of things with our eyes! If a species evolves from an ancestral form that can sense magnetic fields but is now hundreds of times more efficient...
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I see no reason not to postulate a sense that can "visualise" magnetic fields, and thus take in a broader spectrum of data. Obviously, I don't (and can't!) complain about the down vote --- I'm just happy you explained your rationale!
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago
















          4












          4








          4





          $begingroup$

          Of Course!



          That is, assuming these people have the intelligence, resources, sciences, temperament, desire, technological advancements, etc., etc.



          If you can see this in the sky:



          Our Magnetic Sun!



          And something like this orbits your planet:



          Our Magnetic Moon!!



          Then you're more than equipped to get out and take a good look at this:



          It's All Magnets From Here to Forever!!!



          All of those things should be "visible" to a species who can see magnetic fields the way we see light.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Of Course!



          That is, assuming these people have the intelligence, resources, sciences, temperament, desire, technological advancements, etc., etc.



          If you can see this in the sky:



          Our Magnetic Sun!



          And something like this orbits your planet:



          Our Magnetic Moon!!



          Then you're more than equipped to get out and take a good look at this:



          It's All Magnets From Here to Forever!!!



          All of those things should be "visible" to a species who can see magnetic fields the way we see light.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 10 hours ago









          elemtilaselemtilas

          14.9k23264




          14.9k23264












          • $begingroup$
            "Magneto-reception, like birds on Earth" is not the ability to see magnetic fields.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @JBH Indeed --- but it's also "hundreds of times" better than what birds can do!
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Birds don't see magnetic lines. They merely sense it - like our sensing the passing of wind over our fingertips. I rarely downvote one of your answers, but this one I must. This isn't representing what the OP described.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @JBH --- As I said! It's "hundreds of times" better! The OP doesn't specify the actual nature & limitations of the sense in question, so I am presenting a possibility that will get the job done. I mean, birds' senses are pretty damn cool as they are. Keep in mind that our eyes evolved from a sensory patches that could basically detect light or dark. And now we can see colours and shapes and hues and detect movement and judge distances and all kinds of things with our eyes! If a species evolves from an ancestral form that can sense magnetic fields but is now hundreds of times more efficient...
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I see no reason not to postulate a sense that can "visualise" magnetic fields, and thus take in a broader spectrum of data. Obviously, I don't (and can't!) complain about the down vote --- I'm just happy you explained your rationale!
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago




















          • $begingroup$
            "Magneto-reception, like birds on Earth" is not the ability to see magnetic fields.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @JBH Indeed --- but it's also "hundreds of times" better than what birds can do!
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Birds don't see magnetic lines. They merely sense it - like our sensing the passing of wind over our fingertips. I rarely downvote one of your answers, but this one I must. This isn't representing what the OP described.
            $endgroup$
            – JBH
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @JBH --- As I said! It's "hundreds of times" better! The OP doesn't specify the actual nature & limitations of the sense in question, so I am presenting a possibility that will get the job done. I mean, birds' senses are pretty damn cool as they are. Keep in mind that our eyes evolved from a sensory patches that could basically detect light or dark. And now we can see colours and shapes and hues and detect movement and judge distances and all kinds of things with our eyes! If a species evolves from an ancestral form that can sense magnetic fields but is now hundreds of times more efficient...
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            I see no reason not to postulate a sense that can "visualise" magnetic fields, and thus take in a broader spectrum of data. Obviously, I don't (and can't!) complain about the down vote --- I'm just happy you explained your rationale!
            $endgroup$
            – elemtilas
            4 hours ago


















          $begingroup$
          "Magneto-reception, like birds on Earth" is not the ability to see magnetic fields.
          $endgroup$
          – JBH
          4 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          "Magneto-reception, like birds on Earth" is not the ability to see magnetic fields.
          $endgroup$
          – JBH
          4 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          @JBH Indeed --- but it's also "hundreds of times" better than what birds can do!
          $endgroup$
          – elemtilas
          4 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @JBH Indeed --- but it's also "hundreds of times" better than what birds can do!
          $endgroup$
          – elemtilas
          4 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          Birds don't see magnetic lines. They merely sense it - like our sensing the passing of wind over our fingertips. I rarely downvote one of your answers, but this one I must. This isn't representing what the OP described.
          $endgroup$
          – JBH
          4 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Birds don't see magnetic lines. They merely sense it - like our sensing the passing of wind over our fingertips. I rarely downvote one of your answers, but this one I must. This isn't representing what the OP described.
          $endgroup$
          – JBH
          4 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          @JBH --- As I said! It's "hundreds of times" better! The OP doesn't specify the actual nature & limitations of the sense in question, so I am presenting a possibility that will get the job done. I mean, birds' senses are pretty damn cool as they are. Keep in mind that our eyes evolved from a sensory patches that could basically detect light or dark. And now we can see colours and shapes and hues and detect movement and judge distances and all kinds of things with our eyes! If a species evolves from an ancestral form that can sense magnetic fields but is now hundreds of times more efficient...
          $endgroup$
          – elemtilas
          4 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @JBH --- As I said! It's "hundreds of times" better! The OP doesn't specify the actual nature & limitations of the sense in question, so I am presenting a possibility that will get the job done. I mean, birds' senses are pretty damn cool as they are. Keep in mind that our eyes evolved from a sensory patches that could basically detect light or dark. And now we can see colours and shapes and hues and detect movement and judge distances and all kinds of things with our eyes! If a species evolves from an ancestral form that can sense magnetic fields but is now hundreds of times more efficient...
          $endgroup$
          – elemtilas
          4 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          I see no reason not to postulate a sense that can "visualise" magnetic fields, and thus take in a broader spectrum of data. Obviously, I don't (and can't!) complain about the down vote --- I'm just happy you explained your rationale!
          $endgroup$
          – elemtilas
          4 hours ago






          $begingroup$
          I see no reason not to postulate a sense that can "visualise" magnetic fields, and thus take in a broader spectrum of data. Obviously, I don't (and can't!) complain about the down vote --- I'm just happy you explained your rationale!
          $endgroup$
          – elemtilas
          4 hours ago













          3












          $begingroup$

          I think my answer is: Yes.



          Given only echo location it is not possible to discern anything in space or to orient oneself in space. However, to develop space travel, I suppose these aliens would require a high level of technological sophistication anyway. Otherwise some bat would just fly in the direction of "up" and suffocate. Word might get around that this is a bad idea.



          If they first develop machinery to enhance their abilities sufficiently they might also realize that space is not just infinite emptiness.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            A bat flying up will run short of breath progressively in the same way as a climber would. (Or a pilot, for that matter.) Mammals have many more senses than just the five though, and sensing which way is "down" is one of them. Of course ours can be fooled by centripetal force, but flying animals are likely better at that.
            $endgroup$
            – Graham
            5 hours ago
















          3












          $begingroup$

          I think my answer is: Yes.



          Given only echo location it is not possible to discern anything in space or to orient oneself in space. However, to develop space travel, I suppose these aliens would require a high level of technological sophistication anyway. Otherwise some bat would just fly in the direction of "up" and suffocate. Word might get around that this is a bad idea.



          If they first develop machinery to enhance their abilities sufficiently they might also realize that space is not just infinite emptiness.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            A bat flying up will run short of breath progressively in the same way as a climber would. (Or a pilot, for that matter.) Mammals have many more senses than just the five though, and sensing which way is "down" is one of them. Of course ours can be fooled by centripetal force, but flying animals are likely better at that.
            $endgroup$
            – Graham
            5 hours ago














          3












          3








          3





          $begingroup$

          I think my answer is: Yes.



          Given only echo location it is not possible to discern anything in space or to orient oneself in space. However, to develop space travel, I suppose these aliens would require a high level of technological sophistication anyway. Otherwise some bat would just fly in the direction of "up" and suffocate. Word might get around that this is a bad idea.



          If they first develop machinery to enhance their abilities sufficiently they might also realize that space is not just infinite emptiness.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$



          I think my answer is: Yes.



          Given only echo location it is not possible to discern anything in space or to orient oneself in space. However, to develop space travel, I suppose these aliens would require a high level of technological sophistication anyway. Otherwise some bat would just fly in the direction of "up" and suffocate. Word might get around that this is a bad idea.



          If they first develop machinery to enhance their abilities sufficiently they might also realize that space is not just infinite emptiness.







          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer






          New contributor




          genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          answered 12 hours ago









          genesisgenesis

          3815




          3815




          New contributor




          genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





          New contributor





          genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          genesis is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.












          • $begingroup$
            A bat flying up will run short of breath progressively in the same way as a climber would. (Or a pilot, for that matter.) Mammals have many more senses than just the five though, and sensing which way is "down" is one of them. Of course ours can be fooled by centripetal force, but flying animals are likely better at that.
            $endgroup$
            – Graham
            5 hours ago


















          • $begingroup$
            A bat flying up will run short of breath progressively in the same way as a climber would. (Or a pilot, for that matter.) Mammals have many more senses than just the five though, and sensing which way is "down" is one of them. Of course ours can be fooled by centripetal force, but flying animals are likely better at that.
            $endgroup$
            – Graham
            5 hours ago
















          $begingroup$
          A bat flying up will run short of breath progressively in the same way as a climber would. (Or a pilot, for that matter.) Mammals have many more senses than just the five though, and sensing which way is "down" is one of them. Of course ours can be fooled by centripetal force, but flying animals are likely better at that.
          $endgroup$
          – Graham
          5 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          A bat flying up will run short of breath progressively in the same way as a climber would. (Or a pilot, for that matter.) Mammals have many more senses than just the five though, and sensing which way is "down" is one of them. Of course ours can be fooled by centripetal force, but flying animals are likely better at that.
          $endgroup$
          – Graham
          5 hours ago











          2












          $begingroup$

          A possible riff off of an echolocation like solution would be to release hundreds of small disposable probes that explode on impact with anything. Then light sensors the aliens have built could read the incoming data, and map out what is around them as a data point in 3D space. They would possibly be able to visualize any object based on their ability to memorize the coordinates reported by their machine, or have the machine create a model in UV or sound that they could "see" or understand. It's kind of like how a cats whiskers provide acute and specific sensory feed back from a specific point which allows the cat to make adjustments to their location with high precision almost instinctively.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$


















            2












            $begingroup$

            A possible riff off of an echolocation like solution would be to release hundreds of small disposable probes that explode on impact with anything. Then light sensors the aliens have built could read the incoming data, and map out what is around them as a data point in 3D space. They would possibly be able to visualize any object based on their ability to memorize the coordinates reported by their machine, or have the machine create a model in UV or sound that they could "see" or understand. It's kind of like how a cats whiskers provide acute and specific sensory feed back from a specific point which allows the cat to make adjustments to their location with high precision almost instinctively.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$
















              2












              2








              2





              $begingroup$

              A possible riff off of an echolocation like solution would be to release hundreds of small disposable probes that explode on impact with anything. Then light sensors the aliens have built could read the incoming data, and map out what is around them as a data point in 3D space. They would possibly be able to visualize any object based on their ability to memorize the coordinates reported by their machine, or have the machine create a model in UV or sound that they could "see" or understand. It's kind of like how a cats whiskers provide acute and specific sensory feed back from a specific point which allows the cat to make adjustments to their location with high precision almost instinctively.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              A possible riff off of an echolocation like solution would be to release hundreds of small disposable probes that explode on impact with anything. Then light sensors the aliens have built could read the incoming data, and map out what is around them as a data point in 3D space. They would possibly be able to visualize any object based on their ability to memorize the coordinates reported by their machine, or have the machine create a model in UV or sound that they could "see" or understand. It's kind of like how a cats whiskers provide acute and specific sensory feed back from a specific point which allows the cat to make adjustments to their location with high precision almost instinctively.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 11 hours ago









              AlexAlex

              414




              414























                  2












                  $begingroup$

                  Yes, measuring instruments are more important than senses... and you can have glasses for light polarization



                  I think the crucial aspect of your alien species is whether or not they are able to build complex measuring instruments and transmit knowledge.



                  A very important difference between Aristotle and Galileo was that the emphasis the latter put on measurement (rather than their intelligence or available senses). At the time, European manufacture was advanced enough to build the instruments that he and others would require to build up their calculations, and later develop the theories that formed the core of mechanics.



                  The history of space travel would be very different for your species, depending on the way they are able to perceive gravitation, velocity, mass, etc. For example, the early optical telescope would be useless to them but they would have the capacity to notice the effect of the orbit of the moon in the Earth's magnetic field.



                  From this humble beginnings, they could develop a different type of orbital mechanics perhaps slower, perhaps faster than humans did. Unfortunately we know very little about magnetoreception to describe a mechanism in detail, but we do know in some materials "magnetic fields can change the way the charged particles (mainly electrons) respond to the light electromagnetic field". On one side, some phenomena that remained a mistery to humans for millions of years would be a part of everyday life for your aliens...



                  On the other side, with enough tools and technology, your aliens could build themselves some device to perceive light talking advantage of the polarization of light in a similar way in which we have built a ton of things to measure magnetic fields.



                  PD I don't think sound is relevant for space travel because it doesn't travel in a vacuum.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$


















                    2












                    $begingroup$

                    Yes, measuring instruments are more important than senses... and you can have glasses for light polarization



                    I think the crucial aspect of your alien species is whether or not they are able to build complex measuring instruments and transmit knowledge.



                    A very important difference between Aristotle and Galileo was that the emphasis the latter put on measurement (rather than their intelligence or available senses). At the time, European manufacture was advanced enough to build the instruments that he and others would require to build up their calculations, and later develop the theories that formed the core of mechanics.



                    The history of space travel would be very different for your species, depending on the way they are able to perceive gravitation, velocity, mass, etc. For example, the early optical telescope would be useless to them but they would have the capacity to notice the effect of the orbit of the moon in the Earth's magnetic field.



                    From this humble beginnings, they could develop a different type of orbital mechanics perhaps slower, perhaps faster than humans did. Unfortunately we know very little about magnetoreception to describe a mechanism in detail, but we do know in some materials "magnetic fields can change the way the charged particles (mainly electrons) respond to the light electromagnetic field". On one side, some phenomena that remained a mistery to humans for millions of years would be a part of everyday life for your aliens...



                    On the other side, with enough tools and technology, your aliens could build themselves some device to perceive light talking advantage of the polarization of light in a similar way in which we have built a ton of things to measure magnetic fields.



                    PD I don't think sound is relevant for space travel because it doesn't travel in a vacuum.






                    share|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$
















                      2












                      2








                      2





                      $begingroup$

                      Yes, measuring instruments are more important than senses... and you can have glasses for light polarization



                      I think the crucial aspect of your alien species is whether or not they are able to build complex measuring instruments and transmit knowledge.



                      A very important difference between Aristotle and Galileo was that the emphasis the latter put on measurement (rather than their intelligence or available senses). At the time, European manufacture was advanced enough to build the instruments that he and others would require to build up their calculations, and later develop the theories that formed the core of mechanics.



                      The history of space travel would be very different for your species, depending on the way they are able to perceive gravitation, velocity, mass, etc. For example, the early optical telescope would be useless to them but they would have the capacity to notice the effect of the orbit of the moon in the Earth's magnetic field.



                      From this humble beginnings, they could develop a different type of orbital mechanics perhaps slower, perhaps faster than humans did. Unfortunately we know very little about magnetoreception to describe a mechanism in detail, but we do know in some materials "magnetic fields can change the way the charged particles (mainly electrons) respond to the light electromagnetic field". On one side, some phenomena that remained a mistery to humans for millions of years would be a part of everyday life for your aliens...



                      On the other side, with enough tools and technology, your aliens could build themselves some device to perceive light talking advantage of the polarization of light in a similar way in which we have built a ton of things to measure magnetic fields.



                      PD I don't think sound is relevant for space travel because it doesn't travel in a vacuum.






                      share|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$



                      Yes, measuring instruments are more important than senses... and you can have glasses for light polarization



                      I think the crucial aspect of your alien species is whether or not they are able to build complex measuring instruments and transmit knowledge.



                      A very important difference between Aristotle and Galileo was that the emphasis the latter put on measurement (rather than their intelligence or available senses). At the time, European manufacture was advanced enough to build the instruments that he and others would require to build up their calculations, and later develop the theories that formed the core of mechanics.



                      The history of space travel would be very different for your species, depending on the way they are able to perceive gravitation, velocity, mass, etc. For example, the early optical telescope would be useless to them but they would have the capacity to notice the effect of the orbit of the moon in the Earth's magnetic field.



                      From this humble beginnings, they could develop a different type of orbital mechanics perhaps slower, perhaps faster than humans did. Unfortunately we know very little about magnetoreception to describe a mechanism in detail, but we do know in some materials "magnetic fields can change the way the charged particles (mainly electrons) respond to the light electromagnetic field". On one side, some phenomena that remained a mistery to humans for millions of years would be a part of everyday life for your aliens...



                      On the other side, with enough tools and technology, your aliens could build themselves some device to perceive light talking advantage of the polarization of light in a similar way in which we have built a ton of things to measure magnetic fields.



                      PD I don't think sound is relevant for space travel because it doesn't travel in a vacuum.







                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited 5 hours ago

























                      answered 7 hours ago









                      Chuck RamirezChuck Ramirez

                      3527




                      3527























                          1












                          $begingroup$


                          But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos.




                          Really? Or is it just necessary that they be spatially aware?



                          Open your mind. It will take more work on your part, but you can explain it.



                          We cannot see X-Rays, but we discovered them... and then figured out how to make machines/devices that represented them in a form that we could understand (see them on photographic plates). And then discovered how they could be useful.



                          Note that X-Ray radiation killed a lot of the early scientist studying it (via cancer) but that didn't stop them. We learned X-Rays, and then we learned new stuff, and now we have MRIs, use sound waves to measure blood flow, etc.



                          The sun is easy to "see" without "vision".

                          They would feel the warmth, even if they couldn't see it. (Or feel effects from it if you want it really far away)



                          It might take longer to "see" the stars and moon(s) than the sun... but eventually a sentient species of sufficient intelligence would figure it out. First they figure out it is there, then they (eventually) figure out how to get a better view (however you decide that is possible).






                          share|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$


















                            1












                            $begingroup$


                            But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos.




                            Really? Or is it just necessary that they be spatially aware?



                            Open your mind. It will take more work on your part, but you can explain it.



                            We cannot see X-Rays, but we discovered them... and then figured out how to make machines/devices that represented them in a form that we could understand (see them on photographic plates). And then discovered how they could be useful.



                            Note that X-Ray radiation killed a lot of the early scientist studying it (via cancer) but that didn't stop them. We learned X-Rays, and then we learned new stuff, and now we have MRIs, use sound waves to measure blood flow, etc.



                            The sun is easy to "see" without "vision".

                            They would feel the warmth, even if they couldn't see it. (Or feel effects from it if you want it really far away)



                            It might take longer to "see" the stars and moon(s) than the sun... but eventually a sentient species of sufficient intelligence would figure it out. First they figure out it is there, then they (eventually) figure out how to get a better view (however you decide that is possible).






                            share|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$
















                              1












                              1








                              1





                              $begingroup$


                              But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos.




                              Really? Or is it just necessary that they be spatially aware?



                              Open your mind. It will take more work on your part, but you can explain it.



                              We cannot see X-Rays, but we discovered them... and then figured out how to make machines/devices that represented them in a form that we could understand (see them on photographic plates). And then discovered how they could be useful.



                              Note that X-Ray radiation killed a lot of the early scientist studying it (via cancer) but that didn't stop them. We learned X-Rays, and then we learned new stuff, and now we have MRIs, use sound waves to measure blood flow, etc.



                              The sun is easy to "see" without "vision".

                              They would feel the warmth, even if they couldn't see it. (Or feel effects from it if you want it really far away)



                              It might take longer to "see" the stars and moon(s) than the sun... but eventually a sentient species of sufficient intelligence would figure it out. First they figure out it is there, then they (eventually) figure out how to get a better view (however you decide that is possible).






                              share|improve this answer









                              $endgroup$




                              But, when talking about space, sight is necessary to understand the cosmos.




                              Really? Or is it just necessary that they be spatially aware?



                              Open your mind. It will take more work on your part, but you can explain it.



                              We cannot see X-Rays, but we discovered them... and then figured out how to make machines/devices that represented them in a form that we could understand (see them on photographic plates). And then discovered how they could be useful.



                              Note that X-Ray radiation killed a lot of the early scientist studying it (via cancer) but that didn't stop them. We learned X-Rays, and then we learned new stuff, and now we have MRIs, use sound waves to measure blood flow, etc.



                              The sun is easy to "see" without "vision".

                              They would feel the warmth, even if they couldn't see it. (Or feel effects from it if you want it really far away)



                              It might take longer to "see" the stars and moon(s) than the sun... but eventually a sentient species of sufficient intelligence would figure it out. First they figure out it is there, then they (eventually) figure out how to get a better view (however you decide that is possible).







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 7 hours ago









                              J. Chris ComptonJ. Chris Compton

                              31016




                              31016























                                  0












                                  $begingroup$

                                  It's well within the realm of possibilities. Vision is only necessary for us to because it is what we know. If your alien race's dominant senses are as effective for them, as sight is for us, then they could, quite possibly "sense" the nature of the cosmos in their own way.



                                  As humans, our technology has allowed us to overcome our physical limitations over and over again. If your aliens are intelligent enough to create sophisticated technology. And it evolves similar to ours, then (I would think) lack of sight should be an easy hurdle to jump.






                                  share|improve this answer








                                  New contributor




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                                  $endgroup$


















                                    0












                                    $begingroup$

                                    It's well within the realm of possibilities. Vision is only necessary for us to because it is what we know. If your alien race's dominant senses are as effective for them, as sight is for us, then they could, quite possibly "sense" the nature of the cosmos in their own way.



                                    As humans, our technology has allowed us to overcome our physical limitations over and over again. If your aliens are intelligent enough to create sophisticated technology. And it evolves similar to ours, then (I would think) lack of sight should be an easy hurdle to jump.






                                    share|improve this answer








                                    New contributor




                                    matildalee23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                    $endgroup$
















                                      0












                                      0








                                      0





                                      $begingroup$

                                      It's well within the realm of possibilities. Vision is only necessary for us to because it is what we know. If your alien race's dominant senses are as effective for them, as sight is for us, then they could, quite possibly "sense" the nature of the cosmos in their own way.



                                      As humans, our technology has allowed us to overcome our physical limitations over and over again. If your aliens are intelligent enough to create sophisticated technology. And it evolves similar to ours, then (I would think) lack of sight should be an easy hurdle to jump.






                                      share|improve this answer








                                      New contributor




                                      matildalee23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                      $endgroup$



                                      It's well within the realm of possibilities. Vision is only necessary for us to because it is what we know. If your alien race's dominant senses are as effective for them, as sight is for us, then they could, quite possibly "sense" the nature of the cosmos in their own way.



                                      As humans, our technology has allowed us to overcome our physical limitations over and over again. If your aliens are intelligent enough to create sophisticated technology. And it evolves similar to ours, then (I would think) lack of sight should be an easy hurdle to jump.







                                      share|improve this answer








                                      New contributor




                                      matildalee23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer






                                      New contributor




                                      matildalee23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                      answered 10 hours ago









                                      matildalee23matildalee23

                                      1465




                                      1465




                                      New contributor




                                      matildalee23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                      New contributor





                                      matildalee23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                      matildalee23 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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