how can a perfect fourth interval be considered either consonant or dissonant?












11















I've been reading Ralph Denyer's book, The Guitar Handbook, and in the section on intervals he states that the perfect fourth can be either consonant or dissonant but it's not explained as how or why. Can someone shed some light on this topic for me and help me understand what is being said here?










share|improve this question























  • I wonder whether there may be a differece when P4 is in different intonations.

    – Tim
    11 hours ago











  • Related: Perfect 4th is dissonant?

    – Richard
    8 hours ago


















11















I've been reading Ralph Denyer's book, The Guitar Handbook, and in the section on intervals he states that the perfect fourth can be either consonant or dissonant but it's not explained as how or why. Can someone shed some light on this topic for me and help me understand what is being said here?










share|improve this question























  • I wonder whether there may be a differece when P4 is in different intonations.

    – Tim
    11 hours ago











  • Related: Perfect 4th is dissonant?

    – Richard
    8 hours ago
















11












11








11








I've been reading Ralph Denyer's book, The Guitar Handbook, and in the section on intervals he states that the perfect fourth can be either consonant or dissonant but it's not explained as how or why. Can someone shed some light on this topic for me and help me understand what is being said here?










share|improve this question














I've been reading Ralph Denyer's book, The Guitar Handbook, and in the section on intervals he states that the perfect fourth can be either consonant or dissonant but it's not explained as how or why. Can someone shed some light on this topic for me and help me understand what is being said here?







guitar theory harmony intervals






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 12 hours ago









skinny peacockskinny peacock

2,1652324




2,1652324













  • I wonder whether there may be a differece when P4 is in different intonations.

    – Tim
    11 hours ago











  • Related: Perfect 4th is dissonant?

    – Richard
    8 hours ago





















  • I wonder whether there may be a differece when P4 is in different intonations.

    – Tim
    11 hours ago











  • Related: Perfect 4th is dissonant?

    – Richard
    8 hours ago



















I wonder whether there may be a differece when P4 is in different intonations.

– Tim
11 hours ago





I wonder whether there may be a differece when P4 is in different intonations.

– Tim
11 hours ago













Related: Perfect 4th is dissonant?

– Richard
8 hours ago







Related: Perfect 4th is dissonant?

– Richard
8 hours ago












4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















14














There is a kind of historic flow back and forth.



A very long time ago during the Middle Ages - when parallel organum was way to harmonize - the perfect fourth was consonant.



Later when triadic harmony developed along with counterpoint the perfect fourth was treated as a dissonance that resolved to a third.



Later yet again, in modern time, the fourth is treated as a consonance in different ways. In fact in modern times there is quartal harmony based on fourths rather than thirds.



From an acoustical point of view the fourth can be considered consonant because it has a relatively 'simple' interval ratio.



The take away is: consonance and dissonance are concepts determined largely as a matter of style. This is true of other intervals. You could consider minor sevenths and tritones as consonant in the blues as they do not require resolution and a blues audience doesn't think they sound "bad." It's a matter of style and aesthetics.



A technical music theory aside: when dissonance is mentioned in any context, it probably is good to pair that with concepts of resolution (or similar concepts like consonance or stability.) In other words, simply saying X is dissonant only tells half the picture. It's really important to look at how consonant and stability are regained from, or interact with, dissonance. That dynamic is hugely important in how music works.






share|improve this answer

































    4














    A perfect fourth is considered consonant when it appears as an inversion of a perfect fifth, which is itself a consonant interval. This kind of perfect fourth more or less unavoidable in any practical polyphonic arrangement, where the root is often doubled and the fifth is somewhere in between.



    A perfect fourth is considered dissonant when it appears as an interval above the root, for example in a suspended chord or a 64 chord. It is the reason why a V64-V53-I cadence must resolve; the tonic chord in 64 position is actually considered an embellishment of V with a dissonant fourth.



    There is a psychoacoustic reason for this. Intervals which first appear early in the harmonic series are consonant; intervals which first appear later are dissonant. If you examine this diagram showing the harmonics in order, you'll find that G appears rather early (third harmonic above C) while F natural is nowhere to be found.



    enter image description here



    This makes the perfect fourth both the most consonant and one of the most dissonant intervals in the series, depending on how it appears in context.






    share|improve this answer


























    • This. Context is everything. A major seventh doesn't sound great until you add the major third (and fifth and ninth) to it. A minor ninth doesn't sound good until you add the minor third and whatever else. Context!

      – John Doe
      8 hours ago



















    1














    I'm guessing he's adressing how different musical traditions perceives the perfect fourth interval. In other words, historically the perfect fourth was considered dissonant, but in latter periods it has been considered a consonant interval.






    share|improve this answer
























    • This is true, but mainly for the Western Music. Ancient Greece and Japan used perfect 4ths

      – Shevliaskovic
      10 hours ago



















    1














    In the musical context, the sense of consonance and dissonance also depends on the respective harmonical context.



    In the theory of harmony, consonant intervals are defined as at rest and not in need of resolution. On the other hand, dissonant intervals require continuation into consonance.



    The fourth counts - considered individually - to the perfect consonances. As part of a four-part major chord, it also appears consonant. eg. G-C in C-E-G-C



    If, however, it is placed in a triad as a (chord-foreign) suspended tone, it forms a dissonance: V sus7 (G-C-F)



    The fourth must therefore be resolved in the consonant third of the triad.






    share|improve this answer


























      Your Answer








      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "240"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });














      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f82682%2fhow-can-a-perfect-fourth-interval-be-considered-either-consonant-or-dissonant%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      14














      There is a kind of historic flow back and forth.



      A very long time ago during the Middle Ages - when parallel organum was way to harmonize - the perfect fourth was consonant.



      Later when triadic harmony developed along with counterpoint the perfect fourth was treated as a dissonance that resolved to a third.



      Later yet again, in modern time, the fourth is treated as a consonance in different ways. In fact in modern times there is quartal harmony based on fourths rather than thirds.



      From an acoustical point of view the fourth can be considered consonant because it has a relatively 'simple' interval ratio.



      The take away is: consonance and dissonance are concepts determined largely as a matter of style. This is true of other intervals. You could consider minor sevenths and tritones as consonant in the blues as they do not require resolution and a blues audience doesn't think they sound "bad." It's a matter of style and aesthetics.



      A technical music theory aside: when dissonance is mentioned in any context, it probably is good to pair that with concepts of resolution (or similar concepts like consonance or stability.) In other words, simply saying X is dissonant only tells half the picture. It's really important to look at how consonant and stability are regained from, or interact with, dissonance. That dynamic is hugely important in how music works.






      share|improve this answer






























        14














        There is a kind of historic flow back and forth.



        A very long time ago during the Middle Ages - when parallel organum was way to harmonize - the perfect fourth was consonant.



        Later when triadic harmony developed along with counterpoint the perfect fourth was treated as a dissonance that resolved to a third.



        Later yet again, in modern time, the fourth is treated as a consonance in different ways. In fact in modern times there is quartal harmony based on fourths rather than thirds.



        From an acoustical point of view the fourth can be considered consonant because it has a relatively 'simple' interval ratio.



        The take away is: consonance and dissonance are concepts determined largely as a matter of style. This is true of other intervals. You could consider minor sevenths and tritones as consonant in the blues as they do not require resolution and a blues audience doesn't think they sound "bad." It's a matter of style and aesthetics.



        A technical music theory aside: when dissonance is mentioned in any context, it probably is good to pair that with concepts of resolution (or similar concepts like consonance or stability.) In other words, simply saying X is dissonant only tells half the picture. It's really important to look at how consonant and stability are regained from, or interact with, dissonance. That dynamic is hugely important in how music works.






        share|improve this answer




























          14












          14








          14







          There is a kind of historic flow back and forth.



          A very long time ago during the Middle Ages - when parallel organum was way to harmonize - the perfect fourth was consonant.



          Later when triadic harmony developed along with counterpoint the perfect fourth was treated as a dissonance that resolved to a third.



          Later yet again, in modern time, the fourth is treated as a consonance in different ways. In fact in modern times there is quartal harmony based on fourths rather than thirds.



          From an acoustical point of view the fourth can be considered consonant because it has a relatively 'simple' interval ratio.



          The take away is: consonance and dissonance are concepts determined largely as a matter of style. This is true of other intervals. You could consider minor sevenths and tritones as consonant in the blues as they do not require resolution and a blues audience doesn't think they sound "bad." It's a matter of style and aesthetics.



          A technical music theory aside: when dissonance is mentioned in any context, it probably is good to pair that with concepts of resolution (or similar concepts like consonance or stability.) In other words, simply saying X is dissonant only tells half the picture. It's really important to look at how consonant and stability are regained from, or interact with, dissonance. That dynamic is hugely important in how music works.






          share|improve this answer















          There is a kind of historic flow back and forth.



          A very long time ago during the Middle Ages - when parallel organum was way to harmonize - the perfect fourth was consonant.



          Later when triadic harmony developed along with counterpoint the perfect fourth was treated as a dissonance that resolved to a third.



          Later yet again, in modern time, the fourth is treated as a consonance in different ways. In fact in modern times there is quartal harmony based on fourths rather than thirds.



          From an acoustical point of view the fourth can be considered consonant because it has a relatively 'simple' interval ratio.



          The take away is: consonance and dissonance are concepts determined largely as a matter of style. This is true of other intervals. You could consider minor sevenths and tritones as consonant in the blues as they do not require resolution and a blues audience doesn't think they sound "bad." It's a matter of style and aesthetics.



          A technical music theory aside: when dissonance is mentioned in any context, it probably is good to pair that with concepts of resolution (or similar concepts like consonance or stability.) In other words, simply saying X is dissonant only tells half the picture. It's really important to look at how consonant and stability are regained from, or interact with, dissonance. That dynamic is hugely important in how music works.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 11 hours ago

























          answered 11 hours ago









          Michael CurtisMichael Curtis

          11.8k743




          11.8k743























              4














              A perfect fourth is considered consonant when it appears as an inversion of a perfect fifth, which is itself a consonant interval. This kind of perfect fourth more or less unavoidable in any practical polyphonic arrangement, where the root is often doubled and the fifth is somewhere in between.



              A perfect fourth is considered dissonant when it appears as an interval above the root, for example in a suspended chord or a 64 chord. It is the reason why a V64-V53-I cadence must resolve; the tonic chord in 64 position is actually considered an embellishment of V with a dissonant fourth.



              There is a psychoacoustic reason for this. Intervals which first appear early in the harmonic series are consonant; intervals which first appear later are dissonant. If you examine this diagram showing the harmonics in order, you'll find that G appears rather early (third harmonic above C) while F natural is nowhere to be found.



              enter image description here



              This makes the perfect fourth both the most consonant and one of the most dissonant intervals in the series, depending on how it appears in context.






              share|improve this answer


























              • This. Context is everything. A major seventh doesn't sound great until you add the major third (and fifth and ninth) to it. A minor ninth doesn't sound good until you add the minor third and whatever else. Context!

                – John Doe
                8 hours ago
















              4














              A perfect fourth is considered consonant when it appears as an inversion of a perfect fifth, which is itself a consonant interval. This kind of perfect fourth more or less unavoidable in any practical polyphonic arrangement, where the root is often doubled and the fifth is somewhere in between.



              A perfect fourth is considered dissonant when it appears as an interval above the root, for example in a suspended chord or a 64 chord. It is the reason why a V64-V53-I cadence must resolve; the tonic chord in 64 position is actually considered an embellishment of V with a dissonant fourth.



              There is a psychoacoustic reason for this. Intervals which first appear early in the harmonic series are consonant; intervals which first appear later are dissonant. If you examine this diagram showing the harmonics in order, you'll find that G appears rather early (third harmonic above C) while F natural is nowhere to be found.



              enter image description here



              This makes the perfect fourth both the most consonant and one of the most dissonant intervals in the series, depending on how it appears in context.






              share|improve this answer


























              • This. Context is everything. A major seventh doesn't sound great until you add the major third (and fifth and ninth) to it. A minor ninth doesn't sound good until you add the minor third and whatever else. Context!

                – John Doe
                8 hours ago














              4












              4








              4







              A perfect fourth is considered consonant when it appears as an inversion of a perfect fifth, which is itself a consonant interval. This kind of perfect fourth more or less unavoidable in any practical polyphonic arrangement, where the root is often doubled and the fifth is somewhere in between.



              A perfect fourth is considered dissonant when it appears as an interval above the root, for example in a suspended chord or a 64 chord. It is the reason why a V64-V53-I cadence must resolve; the tonic chord in 64 position is actually considered an embellishment of V with a dissonant fourth.



              There is a psychoacoustic reason for this. Intervals which first appear early in the harmonic series are consonant; intervals which first appear later are dissonant. If you examine this diagram showing the harmonics in order, you'll find that G appears rather early (third harmonic above C) while F natural is nowhere to be found.



              enter image description here



              This makes the perfect fourth both the most consonant and one of the most dissonant intervals in the series, depending on how it appears in context.






              share|improve this answer















              A perfect fourth is considered consonant when it appears as an inversion of a perfect fifth, which is itself a consonant interval. This kind of perfect fourth more or less unavoidable in any practical polyphonic arrangement, where the root is often doubled and the fifth is somewhere in between.



              A perfect fourth is considered dissonant when it appears as an interval above the root, for example in a suspended chord or a 64 chord. It is the reason why a V64-V53-I cadence must resolve; the tonic chord in 64 position is actually considered an embellishment of V with a dissonant fourth.



              There is a psychoacoustic reason for this. Intervals which first appear early in the harmonic series are consonant; intervals which first appear later are dissonant. If you examine this diagram showing the harmonics in order, you'll find that G appears rather early (third harmonic above C) while F natural is nowhere to be found.



              enter image description here



              This makes the perfect fourth both the most consonant and one of the most dissonant intervals in the series, depending on how it appears in context.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited 8 hours ago

























              answered 8 hours ago









              John WuJohn Wu

              1,42858




              1,42858













              • This. Context is everything. A major seventh doesn't sound great until you add the major third (and fifth and ninth) to it. A minor ninth doesn't sound good until you add the minor third and whatever else. Context!

                – John Doe
                8 hours ago



















              • This. Context is everything. A major seventh doesn't sound great until you add the major third (and fifth and ninth) to it. A minor ninth doesn't sound good until you add the minor third and whatever else. Context!

                – John Doe
                8 hours ago

















              This. Context is everything. A major seventh doesn't sound great until you add the major third (and fifth and ninth) to it. A minor ninth doesn't sound good until you add the minor third and whatever else. Context!

              – John Doe
              8 hours ago





              This. Context is everything. A major seventh doesn't sound great until you add the major third (and fifth and ninth) to it. A minor ninth doesn't sound good until you add the minor third and whatever else. Context!

              – John Doe
              8 hours ago











              1














              I'm guessing he's adressing how different musical traditions perceives the perfect fourth interval. In other words, historically the perfect fourth was considered dissonant, but in latter periods it has been considered a consonant interval.






              share|improve this answer
























              • This is true, but mainly for the Western Music. Ancient Greece and Japan used perfect 4ths

                – Shevliaskovic
                10 hours ago
















              1














              I'm guessing he's adressing how different musical traditions perceives the perfect fourth interval. In other words, historically the perfect fourth was considered dissonant, but in latter periods it has been considered a consonant interval.






              share|improve this answer
























              • This is true, but mainly for the Western Music. Ancient Greece and Japan used perfect 4ths

                – Shevliaskovic
                10 hours ago














              1












              1








              1







              I'm guessing he's adressing how different musical traditions perceives the perfect fourth interval. In other words, historically the perfect fourth was considered dissonant, but in latter periods it has been considered a consonant interval.






              share|improve this answer













              I'm guessing he's adressing how different musical traditions perceives the perfect fourth interval. In other words, historically the perfect fourth was considered dissonant, but in latter periods it has been considered a consonant interval.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 12 hours ago









              ErikErik

              355112




              355112













              • This is true, but mainly for the Western Music. Ancient Greece and Japan used perfect 4ths

                – Shevliaskovic
                10 hours ago



















              • This is true, but mainly for the Western Music. Ancient Greece and Japan used perfect 4ths

                – Shevliaskovic
                10 hours ago

















              This is true, but mainly for the Western Music. Ancient Greece and Japan used perfect 4ths

              – Shevliaskovic
              10 hours ago





              This is true, but mainly for the Western Music. Ancient Greece and Japan used perfect 4ths

              – Shevliaskovic
              10 hours ago











              1














              In the musical context, the sense of consonance and dissonance also depends on the respective harmonical context.



              In the theory of harmony, consonant intervals are defined as at rest and not in need of resolution. On the other hand, dissonant intervals require continuation into consonance.



              The fourth counts - considered individually - to the perfect consonances. As part of a four-part major chord, it also appears consonant. eg. G-C in C-E-G-C



              If, however, it is placed in a triad as a (chord-foreign) suspended tone, it forms a dissonance: V sus7 (G-C-F)



              The fourth must therefore be resolved in the consonant third of the triad.






              share|improve this answer






























                1














                In the musical context, the sense of consonance and dissonance also depends on the respective harmonical context.



                In the theory of harmony, consonant intervals are defined as at rest and not in need of resolution. On the other hand, dissonant intervals require continuation into consonance.



                The fourth counts - considered individually - to the perfect consonances. As part of a four-part major chord, it also appears consonant. eg. G-C in C-E-G-C



                If, however, it is placed in a triad as a (chord-foreign) suspended tone, it forms a dissonance: V sus7 (G-C-F)



                The fourth must therefore be resolved in the consonant third of the triad.






                share|improve this answer




























                  1












                  1








                  1







                  In the musical context, the sense of consonance and dissonance also depends on the respective harmonical context.



                  In the theory of harmony, consonant intervals are defined as at rest and not in need of resolution. On the other hand, dissonant intervals require continuation into consonance.



                  The fourth counts - considered individually - to the perfect consonances. As part of a four-part major chord, it also appears consonant. eg. G-C in C-E-G-C



                  If, however, it is placed in a triad as a (chord-foreign) suspended tone, it forms a dissonance: V sus7 (G-C-F)



                  The fourth must therefore be resolved in the consonant third of the triad.






                  share|improve this answer















                  In the musical context, the sense of consonance and dissonance also depends on the respective harmonical context.



                  In the theory of harmony, consonant intervals are defined as at rest and not in need of resolution. On the other hand, dissonant intervals require continuation into consonance.



                  The fourth counts - considered individually - to the perfect consonances. As part of a four-part major chord, it also appears consonant. eg. G-C in C-E-G-C



                  If, however, it is placed in a triad as a (chord-foreign) suspended tone, it forms a dissonance: V sus7 (G-C-F)



                  The fourth must therefore be resolved in the consonant third of the triad.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 10 hours ago

























                  answered 11 hours ago









                  Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli

                  4,5971320




                  4,5971320






























                      draft saved

                      draft discarded




















































                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Music: Practice & Theory Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid



                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f82682%2fhow-can-a-perfect-fourth-interval-be-considered-either-consonant-or-dissonant%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      What other Star Trek series did the main TNG cast show up in?

                      Berlina muro

                      Berlina aerponto