How to read αἱμύλιος or when to aspirate












4















I've tought myself to read the Greek alphabet, and it is still confusing to read and identify "h" sound in the ancient Greek. For example, Athena talks about Circe that she has "αἱμύλιοι λόγοι" in Odyssey(1, 56). It seems 'aimylioi logoi' to me, because α has no diacritical mark on, but I have seen that is read as 'haimylioi logoi' elsewhere. Which one is right, and why? Is it to do with the Homeric Greek, or does ἱ after α affect the pronunciation? Thank you!










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    4















    I've tought myself to read the Greek alphabet, and it is still confusing to read and identify "h" sound in the ancient Greek. For example, Athena talks about Circe that she has "αἱμύλιοι λόγοι" in Odyssey(1, 56). It seems 'aimylioi logoi' to me, because α has no diacritical mark on, but I have seen that is read as 'haimylioi logoi' elsewhere. Which one is right, and why? Is it to do with the Homeric Greek, or does ἱ after α affect the pronunciation? Thank you!










    share|improve this question



























      4












      4








      4








      I've tought myself to read the Greek alphabet, and it is still confusing to read and identify "h" sound in the ancient Greek. For example, Athena talks about Circe that she has "αἱμύλιοι λόγοι" in Odyssey(1, 56). It seems 'aimylioi logoi' to me, because α has no diacritical mark on, but I have seen that is read as 'haimylioi logoi' elsewhere. Which one is right, and why? Is it to do with the Homeric Greek, or does ἱ after α affect the pronunciation? Thank you!










      share|improve this question
















      I've tought myself to read the Greek alphabet, and it is still confusing to read and identify "h" sound in the ancient Greek. For example, Athena talks about Circe that she has "αἱμύλιοι λόγοι" in Odyssey(1, 56). It seems 'aimylioi logoi' to me, because α has no diacritical mark on, but I have seen that is read as 'haimylioi logoi' elsewhere. Which one is right, and why? Is it to do with the Homeric Greek, or does ἱ after α affect the pronunciation? Thank you!







      greek pronunciation homer aspiration






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      edited 13 hours ago







      K. Park

















      asked 13 hours ago









      K. ParkK. Park

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          3 Answers
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          All words beginning with a vowel are marked with a 'breathing.' This looks like a single inverted comma. When the breathing is 'rough' (aspirate) it is c shaped < ;when the breathing is 'smooth' the inverted comma is reversed > . In the case of αἱμύλιοι the aspirate, the rough breathing, has been placed over the second letter of the vowel pair αἱ.



          The other diacritical marks are tonal accents:

          αἱμύλιοι is proparoxytone;

          λόγοι is paroxytone.
          perispomenon and properispomenon are only found on long vowels and diphthongs, and can be, barely, heard as a rising-falling tone.






          share|improve this answer































            9














            If a word begins with a diphthong, the breathing sign is written over the second vowel letter. "Haimylioi" is correct.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 6





              Incidentally, this can be used to distinguish between diphthongs and vowels with iota adscriptum when dealing with capitals (where in modern typesetting, iota subscriptum is actually placed next to the capital (thus adscriptum, instead of under it.) Thus, in ᾿´Αιδι, we know it's pronounced as "adi", not as "aidi", because if the latter were correct, it would have to be written as Αἴδι.

              – sgf
              12 hours ago





















            3














            fdb is absolutely correct (+1), but to address this part of your question:




            does ἱ after α affect the pronunciation?




            The answer is, yes, it absolutely does!



            In (most dialects of) Ancient Greek, there were fourteen vowels (*):




            • α, ε, η, ι, ο, ω, υ are written with single letters

            • αι, ει, οι, υι, αυ, ευ, ου are written with double letters


            The vowels in the second group are conventionally called "diphthongs", even though not all of them were actually diphthongs in the linguistic sense (ει and ου were monophthongs).



            But even though they're written with two letters, these diphthongs act as single vowels. So the convention is, whenever you put an accent or breathing mark on a diphthong, it goes on the second letter.



            So when you have a word like αἱμύλιοι, it has four syllables, each with one vowel: αἱ-μύ-λι-οι. The first vowel is αι, marked with a rough breathing, and transcribed hai in the Latin alphabet.





            (*) Some dialects had more, some had less. In Epic, there were also three long diphthongs that disappeared before Classical Attic (ᾱι ηι ωι), and three long monophthongs that weren't indicated in writing (ᾱ ῑ ῡ). Other dialects had a distinction between ει and ε̄, and ου and ο̄, which Attic didn't—but I don't know if Epic is one of these.



            EDIT: As fdb points out, the long diphthongs were still written in Classical Attic. My bad.






            share|improve this answer


























            • I take your point about diphthongs. ει and ου were digraphs, not diphthongs.The long diphthongs ᾱι ηι ωι were still written in Attic inscriptions of the classical period; in the Byzantine orthography they were written with subscript iota.

              – fdb
              6 hours ago











            • @fdb Yeah, annoyingly my textbook at least calls those two "diphthongs" even though they linguistically weren't (they were long monophthongs), so I'm trying to use that same terminology here. I didn't know the Attics still wrote the long diphthongs though, I'll add a note about that.

              – Draconis
              6 hours ago












            Your Answer








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            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

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            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            3














            All words beginning with a vowel are marked with a 'breathing.' This looks like a single inverted comma. When the breathing is 'rough' (aspirate) it is c shaped < ;when the breathing is 'smooth' the inverted comma is reversed > . In the case of αἱμύλιοι the aspirate, the rough breathing, has been placed over the second letter of the vowel pair αἱ.



            The other diacritical marks are tonal accents:

            αἱμύλιοι is proparoxytone;

            λόγοι is paroxytone.
            perispomenon and properispomenon are only found on long vowels and diphthongs, and can be, barely, heard as a rising-falling tone.






            share|improve this answer




























              3














              All words beginning with a vowel are marked with a 'breathing.' This looks like a single inverted comma. When the breathing is 'rough' (aspirate) it is c shaped < ;when the breathing is 'smooth' the inverted comma is reversed > . In the case of αἱμύλιοι the aspirate, the rough breathing, has been placed over the second letter of the vowel pair αἱ.



              The other diacritical marks are tonal accents:

              αἱμύλιοι is proparoxytone;

              λόγοι is paroxytone.
              perispomenon and properispomenon are only found on long vowels and diphthongs, and can be, barely, heard as a rising-falling tone.






              share|improve this answer


























                3












                3








                3







                All words beginning with a vowel are marked with a 'breathing.' This looks like a single inverted comma. When the breathing is 'rough' (aspirate) it is c shaped < ;when the breathing is 'smooth' the inverted comma is reversed > . In the case of αἱμύλιοι the aspirate, the rough breathing, has been placed over the second letter of the vowel pair αἱ.



                The other diacritical marks are tonal accents:

                αἱμύλιοι is proparoxytone;

                λόγοι is paroxytone.
                perispomenon and properispomenon are only found on long vowels and diphthongs, and can be, barely, heard as a rising-falling tone.






                share|improve this answer













                All words beginning with a vowel are marked with a 'breathing.' This looks like a single inverted comma. When the breathing is 'rough' (aspirate) it is c shaped < ;when the breathing is 'smooth' the inverted comma is reversed > . In the case of αἱμύλιοι the aspirate, the rough breathing, has been placed over the second letter of the vowel pair αἱ.



                The other diacritical marks are tonal accents:

                αἱμύλιοι is proparoxytone;

                λόγοι is paroxytone.
                perispomenon and properispomenon are only found on long vowels and diphthongs, and can be, barely, heard as a rising-falling tone.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 13 hours ago









                HughHugh

                5,6502616




                5,6502616























                    9














                    If a word begins with a diphthong, the breathing sign is written over the second vowel letter. "Haimylioi" is correct.






                    share|improve this answer



















                    • 6





                      Incidentally, this can be used to distinguish between diphthongs and vowels with iota adscriptum when dealing with capitals (where in modern typesetting, iota subscriptum is actually placed next to the capital (thus adscriptum, instead of under it.) Thus, in ᾿´Αιδι, we know it's pronounced as "adi", not as "aidi", because if the latter were correct, it would have to be written as Αἴδι.

                      – sgf
                      12 hours ago


















                    9














                    If a word begins with a diphthong, the breathing sign is written over the second vowel letter. "Haimylioi" is correct.






                    share|improve this answer



















                    • 6





                      Incidentally, this can be used to distinguish between diphthongs and vowels with iota adscriptum when dealing with capitals (where in modern typesetting, iota subscriptum is actually placed next to the capital (thus adscriptum, instead of under it.) Thus, in ᾿´Αιδι, we know it's pronounced as "adi", not as "aidi", because if the latter were correct, it would have to be written as Αἴδι.

                      – sgf
                      12 hours ago
















                    9












                    9








                    9







                    If a word begins with a diphthong, the breathing sign is written over the second vowel letter. "Haimylioi" is correct.






                    share|improve this answer













                    If a word begins with a diphthong, the breathing sign is written over the second vowel letter. "Haimylioi" is correct.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 13 hours ago









                    fdbfdb

                    11.2k11228




                    11.2k11228








                    • 6





                      Incidentally, this can be used to distinguish between diphthongs and vowels with iota adscriptum when dealing with capitals (where in modern typesetting, iota subscriptum is actually placed next to the capital (thus adscriptum, instead of under it.) Thus, in ᾿´Αιδι, we know it's pronounced as "adi", not as "aidi", because if the latter were correct, it would have to be written as Αἴδι.

                      – sgf
                      12 hours ago
















                    • 6





                      Incidentally, this can be used to distinguish between diphthongs and vowels with iota adscriptum when dealing with capitals (where in modern typesetting, iota subscriptum is actually placed next to the capital (thus adscriptum, instead of under it.) Thus, in ᾿´Αιδι, we know it's pronounced as "adi", not as "aidi", because if the latter were correct, it would have to be written as Αἴδι.

                      – sgf
                      12 hours ago










                    6




                    6





                    Incidentally, this can be used to distinguish between diphthongs and vowels with iota adscriptum when dealing with capitals (where in modern typesetting, iota subscriptum is actually placed next to the capital (thus adscriptum, instead of under it.) Thus, in ᾿´Αιδι, we know it's pronounced as "adi", not as "aidi", because if the latter were correct, it would have to be written as Αἴδι.

                    – sgf
                    12 hours ago







                    Incidentally, this can be used to distinguish between diphthongs and vowels with iota adscriptum when dealing with capitals (where in modern typesetting, iota subscriptum is actually placed next to the capital (thus adscriptum, instead of under it.) Thus, in ᾿´Αιδι, we know it's pronounced as "adi", not as "aidi", because if the latter were correct, it would have to be written as Αἴδι.

                    – sgf
                    12 hours ago













                    3














                    fdb is absolutely correct (+1), but to address this part of your question:




                    does ἱ after α affect the pronunciation?




                    The answer is, yes, it absolutely does!



                    In (most dialects of) Ancient Greek, there were fourteen vowels (*):




                    • α, ε, η, ι, ο, ω, υ are written with single letters

                    • αι, ει, οι, υι, αυ, ευ, ου are written with double letters


                    The vowels in the second group are conventionally called "diphthongs", even though not all of them were actually diphthongs in the linguistic sense (ει and ου were monophthongs).



                    But even though they're written with two letters, these diphthongs act as single vowels. So the convention is, whenever you put an accent or breathing mark on a diphthong, it goes on the second letter.



                    So when you have a word like αἱμύλιοι, it has four syllables, each with one vowel: αἱ-μύ-λι-οι. The first vowel is αι, marked with a rough breathing, and transcribed hai in the Latin alphabet.





                    (*) Some dialects had more, some had less. In Epic, there were also three long diphthongs that disappeared before Classical Attic (ᾱι ηι ωι), and three long monophthongs that weren't indicated in writing (ᾱ ῑ ῡ). Other dialects had a distinction between ει and ε̄, and ου and ο̄, which Attic didn't—but I don't know if Epic is one of these.



                    EDIT: As fdb points out, the long diphthongs were still written in Classical Attic. My bad.






                    share|improve this answer


























                    • I take your point about diphthongs. ει and ου were digraphs, not diphthongs.The long diphthongs ᾱι ηι ωι were still written in Attic inscriptions of the classical period; in the Byzantine orthography they were written with subscript iota.

                      – fdb
                      6 hours ago











                    • @fdb Yeah, annoyingly my textbook at least calls those two "diphthongs" even though they linguistically weren't (they were long monophthongs), so I'm trying to use that same terminology here. I didn't know the Attics still wrote the long diphthongs though, I'll add a note about that.

                      – Draconis
                      6 hours ago
















                    3














                    fdb is absolutely correct (+1), but to address this part of your question:




                    does ἱ after α affect the pronunciation?




                    The answer is, yes, it absolutely does!



                    In (most dialects of) Ancient Greek, there were fourteen vowels (*):




                    • α, ε, η, ι, ο, ω, υ are written with single letters

                    • αι, ει, οι, υι, αυ, ευ, ου are written with double letters


                    The vowels in the second group are conventionally called "diphthongs", even though not all of them were actually diphthongs in the linguistic sense (ει and ου were monophthongs).



                    But even though they're written with two letters, these diphthongs act as single vowels. So the convention is, whenever you put an accent or breathing mark on a diphthong, it goes on the second letter.



                    So when you have a word like αἱμύλιοι, it has four syllables, each with one vowel: αἱ-μύ-λι-οι. The first vowel is αι, marked with a rough breathing, and transcribed hai in the Latin alphabet.





                    (*) Some dialects had more, some had less. In Epic, there were also three long diphthongs that disappeared before Classical Attic (ᾱι ηι ωι), and three long monophthongs that weren't indicated in writing (ᾱ ῑ ῡ). Other dialects had a distinction between ει and ε̄, and ου and ο̄, which Attic didn't—but I don't know if Epic is one of these.



                    EDIT: As fdb points out, the long diphthongs were still written in Classical Attic. My bad.






                    share|improve this answer


























                    • I take your point about diphthongs. ει and ου were digraphs, not diphthongs.The long diphthongs ᾱι ηι ωι were still written in Attic inscriptions of the classical period; in the Byzantine orthography they were written with subscript iota.

                      – fdb
                      6 hours ago











                    • @fdb Yeah, annoyingly my textbook at least calls those two "diphthongs" even though they linguistically weren't (they were long monophthongs), so I'm trying to use that same terminology here. I didn't know the Attics still wrote the long diphthongs though, I'll add a note about that.

                      – Draconis
                      6 hours ago














                    3












                    3








                    3







                    fdb is absolutely correct (+1), but to address this part of your question:




                    does ἱ after α affect the pronunciation?




                    The answer is, yes, it absolutely does!



                    In (most dialects of) Ancient Greek, there were fourteen vowels (*):




                    • α, ε, η, ι, ο, ω, υ are written with single letters

                    • αι, ει, οι, υι, αυ, ευ, ου are written with double letters


                    The vowels in the second group are conventionally called "diphthongs", even though not all of them were actually diphthongs in the linguistic sense (ει and ου were monophthongs).



                    But even though they're written with two letters, these diphthongs act as single vowels. So the convention is, whenever you put an accent or breathing mark on a diphthong, it goes on the second letter.



                    So when you have a word like αἱμύλιοι, it has four syllables, each with one vowel: αἱ-μύ-λι-οι. The first vowel is αι, marked with a rough breathing, and transcribed hai in the Latin alphabet.





                    (*) Some dialects had more, some had less. In Epic, there were also three long diphthongs that disappeared before Classical Attic (ᾱι ηι ωι), and three long monophthongs that weren't indicated in writing (ᾱ ῑ ῡ). Other dialects had a distinction between ει and ε̄, and ου and ο̄, which Attic didn't—but I don't know if Epic is one of these.



                    EDIT: As fdb points out, the long diphthongs were still written in Classical Attic. My bad.






                    share|improve this answer















                    fdb is absolutely correct (+1), but to address this part of your question:




                    does ἱ after α affect the pronunciation?




                    The answer is, yes, it absolutely does!



                    In (most dialects of) Ancient Greek, there were fourteen vowels (*):




                    • α, ε, η, ι, ο, ω, υ are written with single letters

                    • αι, ει, οι, υι, αυ, ευ, ου are written with double letters


                    The vowels in the second group are conventionally called "diphthongs", even though not all of them were actually diphthongs in the linguistic sense (ει and ου were monophthongs).



                    But even though they're written with two letters, these diphthongs act as single vowels. So the convention is, whenever you put an accent or breathing mark on a diphthong, it goes on the second letter.



                    So when you have a word like αἱμύλιοι, it has four syllables, each with one vowel: αἱ-μύ-λι-οι. The first vowel is αι, marked with a rough breathing, and transcribed hai in the Latin alphabet.





                    (*) Some dialects had more, some had less. In Epic, there were also three long diphthongs that disappeared before Classical Attic (ᾱι ηι ωι), and three long monophthongs that weren't indicated in writing (ᾱ ῑ ῡ). Other dialects had a distinction between ει and ε̄, and ου and ο̄, which Attic didn't—but I don't know if Epic is one of these.



                    EDIT: As fdb points out, the long diphthongs were still written in Classical Attic. My bad.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited 6 hours ago

























                    answered 8 hours ago









                    DraconisDraconis

                    18.5k22475




                    18.5k22475













                    • I take your point about diphthongs. ει and ου were digraphs, not diphthongs.The long diphthongs ᾱι ηι ωι were still written in Attic inscriptions of the classical period; in the Byzantine orthography they were written with subscript iota.

                      – fdb
                      6 hours ago











                    • @fdb Yeah, annoyingly my textbook at least calls those two "diphthongs" even though they linguistically weren't (they were long monophthongs), so I'm trying to use that same terminology here. I didn't know the Attics still wrote the long diphthongs though, I'll add a note about that.

                      – Draconis
                      6 hours ago



















                    • I take your point about diphthongs. ει and ου were digraphs, not diphthongs.The long diphthongs ᾱι ηι ωι were still written in Attic inscriptions of the classical period; in the Byzantine orthography they were written with subscript iota.

                      – fdb
                      6 hours ago











                    • @fdb Yeah, annoyingly my textbook at least calls those two "diphthongs" even though they linguistically weren't (they were long monophthongs), so I'm trying to use that same terminology here. I didn't know the Attics still wrote the long diphthongs though, I'll add a note about that.

                      – Draconis
                      6 hours ago

















                    I take your point about diphthongs. ει and ου were digraphs, not diphthongs.The long diphthongs ᾱι ηι ωι were still written in Attic inscriptions of the classical period; in the Byzantine orthography they were written with subscript iota.

                    – fdb
                    6 hours ago





                    I take your point about diphthongs. ει and ου were digraphs, not diphthongs.The long diphthongs ᾱι ηι ωι were still written in Attic inscriptions of the classical period; in the Byzantine orthography they were written with subscript iota.

                    – fdb
                    6 hours ago













                    @fdb Yeah, annoyingly my textbook at least calls those two "diphthongs" even though they linguistically weren't (they were long monophthongs), so I'm trying to use that same terminology here. I didn't know the Attics still wrote the long diphthongs though, I'll add a note about that.

                    – Draconis
                    6 hours ago





                    @fdb Yeah, annoyingly my textbook at least calls those two "diphthongs" even though they linguistically weren't (they were long monophthongs), so I'm trying to use that same terminology here. I didn't know the Attics still wrote the long diphthongs though, I'll add a note about that.

                    – Draconis
                    6 hours ago


















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