Why does “torque” have 2 different units?
On various websites I see torque expressed as kgm but I was always taught torque is Nm or kgm^2/s^2. These are clearly not the same, so why are they called the same and when do I use one or the other?
mass torque units dimensional-analysis weight
edited 3 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
102k121831161
asked 13 hours ago
sparposparpo
284
|
show 2 more comments
On various websites I see torque expressed as kgm but I was always taught torque is Nm or kgm^2/s^2. These are clearly not the same, so why are they called the same and when do I use one or the other?
mass torque units dimensional-analysis weight
edited 3 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
102k121831161
asked 13 hours ago
sparposparpo
284
5
Don’t trust websites for introductory physics help. There’s a lot of crap and noise out there. The one you were always taught is perfectly right!
– knzhou
13 hours ago
@knzhou I see this unit of torque kg/m , in the details of electric motors. They always give the torque of an electric motor in kg/m. Do they just call it "torque" but mean something else?
– sparpo
12 hours ago
@knzhou Actually "kg/m" was probably just a mistake on this website, they probably meant kg*m.
– sparpo
12 hours ago
It has any number of units, since there are any number of unit systems. In cgs it has unit $dyne cdot cm$. If you stick to a single unit system you cannot go wrong. My advise is mksi, so $Nm$.
– my2cts
12 hours ago
@sparpo, kg is a unit of mass, and N is a unit of force. kg-m is NOT a unit of torque. This usage no doubt comes from the usage of ft-lb in the English system, but what most people don't realize is that there are pounds-force and pounds-mass, and the two units differ by a factor of 32.2.
– David White
12 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
On various websites I see torque expressed as kgm but I was always taught torque is Nm or kgm^2/s^2. These are clearly not the same, so why are they called the same and when do I use one or the other?
mass torque units dimensional-analysis weight
edited 3 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
102k121831161
asked 13 hours ago
sparposparpo
284
On various websites I see torque expressed as kgm but I was always taught torque is Nm or kgm^2/s^2. These are clearly not the same, so why are they called the same and when do I use one or the other?
mass torque units dimensional-analysis weight
mass torque units dimensional-analysis weight
edited 3 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
102k121831161
asked 13 hours ago
sparposparpo
284
edited 3 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
102k121831161
asked 13 hours ago
sparposparpo
284
edited 3 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
102k121831161
edited 3 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
102k121831161
edited 3 hours ago
Qmechanic♦
102k121831161
102k121831161
asked 13 hours ago
sparposparpo
284
asked 13 hours ago
sparposparpo
284
asked 13 hours ago
sparposparpo
284
284
5
Don’t trust websites for introductory physics help. There’s a lot of crap and noise out there. The one you were always taught is perfectly right!
– knzhou
13 hours ago
@knzhou I see this unit of torque kg/m , in the details of electric motors. They always give the torque of an electric motor in kg/m. Do they just call it "torque" but mean something else?
– sparpo
12 hours ago
@knzhou Actually "kg/m" was probably just a mistake on this website, they probably meant kg*m.
– sparpo
12 hours ago
It has any number of units, since there are any number of unit systems. In cgs it has unit $dyne cdot cm$. If you stick to a single unit system you cannot go wrong. My advise is mksi, so $Nm$.
– my2cts
12 hours ago
@sparpo, kg is a unit of mass, and N is a unit of force. kg-m is NOT a unit of torque. This usage no doubt comes from the usage of ft-lb in the English system, but what most people don't realize is that there are pounds-force and pounds-mass, and the two units differ by a factor of 32.2.
– David White
12 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
5
Don’t trust websites for introductory physics help. There’s a lot of crap and noise out there. The one you were always taught is perfectly right!
– knzhou
13 hours ago
@knzhou I see this unit of torque kg/m , in the details of electric motors. They always give the torque of an electric motor in kg/m. Do they just call it "torque" but mean something else?
– sparpo
12 hours ago
@knzhou Actually "kg/m" was probably just a mistake on this website, they probably meant kg*m.
– sparpo
12 hours ago
It has any number of units, since there are any number of unit systems. In cgs it has unit $dyne cdot cm$. If you stick to a single unit system you cannot go wrong. My advise is mksi, so $Nm$.
– my2cts
12 hours ago
@sparpo, kg is a unit of mass, and N is a unit of force. kg-m is NOT a unit of torque. This usage no doubt comes from the usage of ft-lb in the English system, but what most people don't realize is that there are pounds-force and pounds-mass, and the two units differ by a factor of 32.2.
– David White
12 hours ago
5
5
Don’t trust websites for introductory physics help. There’s a lot of crap and noise out there. The one you were always taught is perfectly right!
– knzhou
13 hours ago
Don’t trust websites for introductory physics help. There’s a lot of crap and noise out there. The one you were always taught is perfectly right!
– knzhou
13 hours ago
@knzhou I see this unit of torque kg/m , in the details of electric motors. They always give the torque of an electric motor in kg/m. Do they just call it "torque" but mean something else?
– sparpo
12 hours ago
@knzhou I see this unit of torque kg/m , in the details of electric motors. They always give the torque of an electric motor in kg/m. Do they just call it "torque" but mean something else?
– sparpo
12 hours ago
@knzhou Actually "kg/m" was probably just a mistake on this website, they probably meant kg*m.
– sparpo
12 hours ago
@knzhou Actually "kg/m" was probably just a mistake on this website, they probably meant kg*m.
– sparpo
12 hours ago
It has any number of units, since there are any number of unit systems. In cgs it has unit $dyne cdot cm$. If you stick to a single unit system you cannot go wrong. My advise is mksi, so $Nm$.
– my2cts
12 hours ago
It has any number of units, since there are any number of unit systems. In cgs it has unit $dyne cdot cm$. If you stick to a single unit system you cannot go wrong. My advise is mksi, so $Nm$.
– my2cts
12 hours ago
@sparpo, kg is a unit of mass, and N is a unit of force. kg-m is NOT a unit of torque. This usage no doubt comes from the usage of ft-lb in the English system, but what most people don't realize is that there are pounds-force and pounds-mass, and the two units differ by a factor of 32.2.
– David White
12 hours ago
@sparpo, kg is a unit of mass, and N is a unit of force. kg-m is NOT a unit of torque. This usage no doubt comes from the usage of ft-lb in the English system, but what most people don't realize is that there are pounds-force and pounds-mass, and the two units differ by a factor of 32.2.
– David White
12 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Those other sources were probably referring to kilogram-force instead of Newtons. Given the constant conversion between mass and weight on Earth (i.e., $g = 9.8,textrm{m/s}^2$), mass and weight units are often used interchangeably in non-scientific contexts. So, torque can be expressed in kgf-m, where 1 kgf is the weight of 1 kg on Earth's surface. Notice that this is a multiplication, not a division. Units of kgf/m would be completely incorrect.
answered 12 hours ago
Mark HMark H
12.2k22441
1
Yes, and in particular it is strictly speaking wrong - though commonly done, and moreover this shows exactly why you shouldn't do it - to write the unit kgf as "kg".
– The_Sympathizer
8 hours ago
1
@The_Sympathizer Nah, it's fine in the right context. As long as your audience understands, anything works. Though I do get more annoyed at particle physicists who set $c=1$. The equation $E^2 = m^2 + p^2$ makes me twitch due to the loss of units.
– Mark H
8 hours ago
1
The problem is there are then two units with the same symbol and yet quite different meanings, and they are likely to be in rather close proximity with each other if not coming together. That's a recipe for confusion. Moreover when I say "wrong" I mean with regard to the standards that define the meaning of the symbol $mathrm{kg}$. That's why I said "strictly speaking", i.e. according to rigorous application of the standards.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
1
And yes, you don't have to follow standards, but if your usages are not strongly set apart enough, you are creating a recipe for confusion with more standard usages. Especially if your non-standard usages blur together lines that should otherwise be there - e.g. force is not mass.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
1
And with something like torque where mass enters in in a significant way, there is strong potential for contact between the two and that (depending on what kind of measurements you're given) may lead to improper unit arithmetic which is a mistake and definitely wrong by the rules of mathematics.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
add a comment |
The non SI unit is often written as 1 kg-m and is equal to 9.8 N m.
In such a case the 1 kg refers to the unit 1 kg force which is the weight of one kilogram.
Another unit is the Imperial (and US) unit the pound-foot which is equal to approximately 1.36 N m.
Here the unit of force is the pound force.
answered 12 hours ago
FarcherFarcher
47.8k33796
add a comment |
Well I think both of the Units are right. But its not kgm it should be kgf-m.
Torque means - - - > F×R. ..
Hence it has units of Force times distance.
N-m is one of the units where N is unit of Force and m is distance.. While in
Kgf-m Kgf is unit of force and m is distance as Usual.
answered 3 hours ago
user219467user219467
1
New contributor
user219467 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Those other sources were probably referring to kilogram-force instead of Newtons. Given the constant conversion between mass and weight on Earth (i.e., $g = 9.8,textrm{m/s}^2$), mass and weight units are often used interchangeably in non-scientific contexts. So, torque can be expressed in kgf-m, where 1 kgf is the weight of 1 kg on Earth's surface. Notice that this is a multiplication, not a division. Units of kgf/m would be completely incorrect.
answered 12 hours ago
Mark HMark H
12.2k22441
1
Yes, and in particular it is strictly speaking wrong - though commonly done, and moreover this shows exactly why you shouldn't do it - to write the unit kgf as "kg".
– The_Sympathizer
8 hours ago
1
@The_Sympathizer Nah, it's fine in the right context. As long as your audience understands, anything works. Though I do get more annoyed at particle physicists who set $c=1$. The equation $E^2 = m^2 + p^2$ makes me twitch due to the loss of units.
– Mark H
8 hours ago
1
The problem is there are then two units with the same symbol and yet quite different meanings, and they are likely to be in rather close proximity with each other if not coming together. That's a recipe for confusion. Moreover when I say "wrong" I mean with regard to the standards that define the meaning of the symbol $mathrm{kg}$. That's why I said "strictly speaking", i.e. according to rigorous application of the standards.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
1
And yes, you don't have to follow standards, but if your usages are not strongly set apart enough, you are creating a recipe for confusion with more standard usages. Especially if your non-standard usages blur together lines that should otherwise be there - e.g. force is not mass.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
1
And with something like torque where mass enters in in a significant way, there is strong potential for contact between the two and that (depending on what kind of measurements you're given) may lead to improper unit arithmetic which is a mistake and definitely wrong by the rules of mathematics.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Those other sources were probably referring to kilogram-force instead of Newtons. Given the constant conversion between mass and weight on Earth (i.e., $g = 9.8,textrm{m/s}^2$), mass and weight units are often used interchangeably in non-scientific contexts. So, torque can be expressed in kgf-m, where 1 kgf is the weight of 1 kg on Earth's surface. Notice that this is a multiplication, not a division. Units of kgf/m would be completely incorrect.
answered 12 hours ago
Mark HMark H
12.2k22441
1
Yes, and in particular it is strictly speaking wrong - though commonly done, and moreover this shows exactly why you shouldn't do it - to write the unit kgf as "kg".
– The_Sympathizer
8 hours ago
1
@The_Sympathizer Nah, it's fine in the right context. As long as your audience understands, anything works. Though I do get more annoyed at particle physicists who set $c=1$. The equation $E^2 = m^2 + p^2$ makes me twitch due to the loss of units.
– Mark H
8 hours ago
1
The problem is there are then two units with the same symbol and yet quite different meanings, and they are likely to be in rather close proximity with each other if not coming together. That's a recipe for confusion. Moreover when I say "wrong" I mean with regard to the standards that define the meaning of the symbol $mathrm{kg}$. That's why I said "strictly speaking", i.e. according to rigorous application of the standards.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
1
And yes, you don't have to follow standards, but if your usages are not strongly set apart enough, you are creating a recipe for confusion with more standard usages. Especially if your non-standard usages blur together lines that should otherwise be there - e.g. force is not mass.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
1
And with something like torque where mass enters in in a significant way, there is strong potential for contact between the two and that (depending on what kind of measurements you're given) may lead to improper unit arithmetic which is a mistake and definitely wrong by the rules of mathematics.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Those other sources were probably referring to kilogram-force instead of Newtons. Given the constant conversion between mass and weight on Earth (i.e., $g = 9.8,textrm{m/s}^2$), mass and weight units are often used interchangeably in non-scientific contexts. So, torque can be expressed in kgf-m, where 1 kgf is the weight of 1 kg on Earth's surface. Notice that this is a multiplication, not a division. Units of kgf/m would be completely incorrect.
answered 12 hours ago
Mark HMark H
12.2k22441
Those other sources were probably referring to kilogram-force instead of Newtons. Given the constant conversion between mass and weight on Earth (i.e., $g = 9.8,textrm{m/s}^2$), mass and weight units are often used interchangeably in non-scientific contexts. So, torque can be expressed in kgf-m, where 1 kgf is the weight of 1 kg on Earth's surface. Notice that this is a multiplication, not a division. Units of kgf/m would be completely incorrect.
answered 12 hours ago
Mark HMark H
12.2k22441
edited 4 hours ago
answered 12 hours ago
Mark HMark H
12.2k22441
answered 12 hours ago
Mark HMark H
12.2k22441
answered 12 hours ago
Mark HMark H
12.2k22441
12.2k22441
1
Yes, and in particular it is strictly speaking wrong - though commonly done, and moreover this shows exactly why you shouldn't do it - to write the unit kgf as "kg".
– The_Sympathizer
8 hours ago
1
@The_Sympathizer Nah, it's fine in the right context. As long as your audience understands, anything works. Though I do get more annoyed at particle physicists who set $c=1$. The equation $E^2 = m^2 + p^2$ makes me twitch due to the loss of units.
– Mark H
8 hours ago
1
The problem is there are then two units with the same symbol and yet quite different meanings, and they are likely to be in rather close proximity with each other if not coming together. That's a recipe for confusion. Moreover when I say "wrong" I mean with regard to the standards that define the meaning of the symbol $mathrm{kg}$. That's why I said "strictly speaking", i.e. according to rigorous application of the standards.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
1
And yes, you don't have to follow standards, but if your usages are not strongly set apart enough, you are creating a recipe for confusion with more standard usages. Especially if your non-standard usages blur together lines that should otherwise be there - e.g. force is not mass.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
1
And with something like torque where mass enters in in a significant way, there is strong potential for contact between the two and that (depending on what kind of measurements you're given) may lead to improper unit arithmetic which is a mistake and definitely wrong by the rules of mathematics.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Yes, and in particular it is strictly speaking wrong - though commonly done, and moreover this shows exactly why you shouldn't do it - to write the unit kgf as "kg".
– The_Sympathizer
8 hours ago
1
@The_Sympathizer Nah, it's fine in the right context. As long as your audience understands, anything works. Though I do get more annoyed at particle physicists who set $c=1$. The equation $E^2 = m^2 + p^2$ makes me twitch due to the loss of units.
– Mark H
8 hours ago
1
The problem is there are then two units with the same symbol and yet quite different meanings, and they are likely to be in rather close proximity with each other if not coming together. That's a recipe for confusion. Moreover when I say "wrong" I mean with regard to the standards that define the meaning of the symbol $mathrm{kg}$. That's why I said "strictly speaking", i.e. according to rigorous application of the standards.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
1
And yes, you don't have to follow standards, but if your usages are not strongly set apart enough, you are creating a recipe for confusion with more standard usages. Especially if your non-standard usages blur together lines that should otherwise be there - e.g. force is not mass.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
1
And with something like torque where mass enters in in a significant way, there is strong potential for contact between the two and that (depending on what kind of measurements you're given) may lead to improper unit arithmetic which is a mistake and definitely wrong by the rules of mathematics.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
1
1
Yes, and in particular it is strictly speaking wrong - though commonly done, and moreover this shows exactly why you shouldn't do it - to write the unit kgf as "kg".
– The_Sympathizer
8 hours ago
Yes, and in particular it is strictly speaking wrong - though commonly done, and moreover this shows exactly why you shouldn't do it - to write the unit kgf as "kg".
– The_Sympathizer
8 hours ago
1
1
@The_Sympathizer Nah, it's fine in the right context. As long as your audience understands, anything works. Though I do get more annoyed at particle physicists who set $c=1$. The equation $E^2 = m^2 + p^2$ makes me twitch due to the loss of units.
– Mark H
8 hours ago
@The_Sympathizer Nah, it's fine in the right context. As long as your audience understands, anything works. Though I do get more annoyed at particle physicists who set $c=1$. The equation $E^2 = m^2 + p^2$ makes me twitch due to the loss of units.
– Mark H
8 hours ago
1
1
The problem is there are then two units with the same symbol and yet quite different meanings, and they are likely to be in rather close proximity with each other if not coming together. That's a recipe for confusion. Moreover when I say "wrong" I mean with regard to the standards that define the meaning of the symbol $mathrm{kg}$. That's why I said "strictly speaking", i.e. according to rigorous application of the standards.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
The problem is there are then two units with the same symbol and yet quite different meanings, and they are likely to be in rather close proximity with each other if not coming together. That's a recipe for confusion. Moreover when I say "wrong" I mean with regard to the standards that define the meaning of the symbol $mathrm{kg}$. That's why I said "strictly speaking", i.e. according to rigorous application of the standards.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
1
1
And yes, you don't have to follow standards, but if your usages are not strongly set apart enough, you are creating a recipe for confusion with more standard usages. Especially if your non-standard usages blur together lines that should otherwise be there - e.g. force is not mass.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
And yes, you don't have to follow standards, but if your usages are not strongly set apart enough, you are creating a recipe for confusion with more standard usages. Especially if your non-standard usages blur together lines that should otherwise be there - e.g. force is not mass.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
1
1
And with something like torque where mass enters in in a significant way, there is strong potential for contact between the two and that (depending on what kind of measurements you're given) may lead to improper unit arithmetic which is a mistake and definitely wrong by the rules of mathematics.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
And with something like torque where mass enters in in a significant way, there is strong potential for contact between the two and that (depending on what kind of measurements you're given) may lead to improper unit arithmetic which is a mistake and definitely wrong by the rules of mathematics.
– The_Sympathizer
6 hours ago
add a comment |
The non SI unit is often written as 1 kg-m and is equal to 9.8 N m.
In such a case the 1 kg refers to the unit 1 kg force which is the weight of one kilogram.
Another unit is the Imperial (and US) unit the pound-foot which is equal to approximately 1.36 N m.
Here the unit of force is the pound force.
answered 12 hours ago
FarcherFarcher
47.8k33796
add a comment |
The non SI unit is often written as 1 kg-m and is equal to 9.8 N m.
In such a case the 1 kg refers to the unit 1 kg force which is the weight of one kilogram.
Another unit is the Imperial (and US) unit the pound-foot which is equal to approximately 1.36 N m.
Here the unit of force is the pound force.
answered 12 hours ago
FarcherFarcher
47.8k33796
add a comment |
The non SI unit is often written as 1 kg-m and is equal to 9.8 N m.
In such a case the 1 kg refers to the unit 1 kg force which is the weight of one kilogram.
Another unit is the Imperial (and US) unit the pound-foot which is equal to approximately 1.36 N m.
Here the unit of force is the pound force.
answered 12 hours ago
FarcherFarcher
47.8k33796
The non SI unit is often written as 1 kg-m and is equal to 9.8 N m.
In such a case the 1 kg refers to the unit 1 kg force which is the weight of one kilogram.
Another unit is the Imperial (and US) unit the pound-foot which is equal to approximately 1.36 N m.
Here the unit of force is the pound force.
answered 12 hours ago
FarcherFarcher
47.8k33796
answered 12 hours ago
FarcherFarcher
47.8k33796
answered 12 hours ago
FarcherFarcher
47.8k33796
answered 12 hours ago
FarcherFarcher
47.8k33796
47.8k33796
add a comment |
add a comment |
Well I think both of the Units are right. But its not kgm it should be kgf-m.
Torque means - - - > F×R. ..
Hence it has units of Force times distance.
N-m is one of the units where N is unit of Force and m is distance.. While in
Kgf-m Kgf is unit of force and m is distance as Usual.
answered 3 hours ago
user219467user219467
1
New contributor
user219467 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
Well I think both of the Units are right. But its not kgm it should be kgf-m.
Torque means - - - > F×R. ..
Hence it has units of Force times distance.
N-m is one of the units where N is unit of Force and m is distance.. While in
Kgf-m Kgf is unit of force and m is distance as Usual.
answered 3 hours ago
user219467user219467
1
New contributor
user219467 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
Well I think both of the Units are right. But its not kgm it should be kgf-m.
Torque means - - - > F×R. ..
Hence it has units of Force times distance.
N-m is one of the units where N is unit of Force and m is distance.. While in
Kgf-m Kgf is unit of force and m is distance as Usual.
answered 3 hours ago
user219467user219467
1
New contributor
user219467 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Well I think both of the Units are right. But its not kgm it should be kgf-m.
Torque means - - - > F×R. ..
Hence it has units of Force times distance.
N-m is one of the units where N is unit of Force and m is distance.. While in
Kgf-m Kgf is unit of force and m is distance as Usual.
answered 3 hours ago
user219467user219467
1
New contributor
user219467 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 3 hours ago
user219467user219467
1
New contributor
user219467 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 3 hours ago
user219467user219467
1
answered 3 hours ago
user219467user219467
1
1
New contributor
user219467 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
user219467 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
user219467 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
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Don’t trust websites for introductory physics help. There’s a lot of crap and noise out there. The one you were always taught is perfectly right!
– knzhou
13 hours ago
@knzhou I see this unit of torque kg/m , in the details of electric motors. They always give the torque of an electric motor in kg/m. Do they just call it "torque" but mean something else?
– sparpo
12 hours ago
@knzhou Actually "kg/m" was probably just a mistake on this website, they probably meant kg*m.
– sparpo
12 hours ago
It has any number of units, since there are any number of unit systems. In cgs it has unit $dyne cdot cm$. If you stick to a single unit system you cannot go wrong. My advise is mksi, so $Nm$.
– my2cts
12 hours ago
@sparpo, kg is a unit of mass, and N is a unit of force. kg-m is NOT a unit of torque. This usage no doubt comes from the usage of ft-lb in the English system, but what most people don't realize is that there are pounds-force and pounds-mass, and the two units differ by a factor of 32.2.
– David White
12 hours ago