RC Lowpass Filter between Amplifier and ADC input












1












$begingroup$


I have sensors (pyranometers that consist of thermopiles and measure sun irradiation) that ouput a low voltage signal so I need to amplify them using an instrumentation amplifier.
I have chosen the AD8237 for this task: Datasheet



Im using a gain of 100 to amplify the initial low voltage signal (ranging 0-20mV) to 0-2V range.



Im then feeding the amplified signal to the ADC (MCP3422): Datasheet



My sensor values change very slowly and I will read out the digitized ADC values only once every second, so speed is not important in my case.



Now as pointed out in the accepted answer in this question I need a filter between the IN-Amp and the ADC to filter the noise.
In many ADC-datasheets a simple passive RC-filter is suggested between the INA and ADC.
I did quite some research and I still have some questions that confuse me and I hope you can help me with:



I figured that a first order RC filter does not meet my requirements so I cascaded multiple RC stages:





schematic





simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



And this is the simulated filter response in LTSpice:
rc_filter



Questions:



Can I do that? What would be the disadvantages using the proposed filter?
Capacitor values like 47µF or even 100µF give me a even better response (stronger attenuation), would that have a negative impact on my signal or the ADC?



I guess resistor values should not be further increased to prevent voltage drop on my signal?



The filter response seems very promising: Signals at 10Hz already attenuated by ~50% and at 25Hz already by ~90%. As I only care about the DC signal I guess that response should be fine (also 50-60Hz range is covered strongly by the filter).



Resistors create voltage drops so how would these three cascaded resistors affect my amplified signal (thus my digitized value calculated by the ADC)? Ohms law should apply, but I do not know the current...
Any clarification on this is highly appreciated.



Regarding speed/time constants: As my data acquisition (readout ADC once per second) and change in sensor value is very slow I do not need to keep an eye on the speed/time constant of this filter?



As many datasheets suggest an RC filter stage this approach should not be too far off?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    why not use LC filters?
    $endgroup$
    – user164567
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    mainly because I had to choose very very large values for L to get the same attenuation in the low Hz region. Feel free to suggest a configuration, I appreciate any help I can get! :)
    $endgroup$
    – Henry
    5 hours ago
















1












$begingroup$


I have sensors (pyranometers that consist of thermopiles and measure sun irradiation) that ouput a low voltage signal so I need to amplify them using an instrumentation amplifier.
I have chosen the AD8237 for this task: Datasheet



Im using a gain of 100 to amplify the initial low voltage signal (ranging 0-20mV) to 0-2V range.



Im then feeding the amplified signal to the ADC (MCP3422): Datasheet



My sensor values change very slowly and I will read out the digitized ADC values only once every second, so speed is not important in my case.



Now as pointed out in the accepted answer in this question I need a filter between the IN-Amp and the ADC to filter the noise.
In many ADC-datasheets a simple passive RC-filter is suggested between the INA and ADC.
I did quite some research and I still have some questions that confuse me and I hope you can help me with:



I figured that a first order RC filter does not meet my requirements so I cascaded multiple RC stages:





schematic





simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



And this is the simulated filter response in LTSpice:
rc_filter



Questions:



Can I do that? What would be the disadvantages using the proposed filter?
Capacitor values like 47µF or even 100µF give me a even better response (stronger attenuation), would that have a negative impact on my signal or the ADC?



I guess resistor values should not be further increased to prevent voltage drop on my signal?



The filter response seems very promising: Signals at 10Hz already attenuated by ~50% and at 25Hz already by ~90%. As I only care about the DC signal I guess that response should be fine (also 50-60Hz range is covered strongly by the filter).



Resistors create voltage drops so how would these three cascaded resistors affect my amplified signal (thus my digitized value calculated by the ADC)? Ohms law should apply, but I do not know the current...
Any clarification on this is highly appreciated.



Regarding speed/time constants: As my data acquisition (readout ADC once per second) and change in sensor value is very slow I do not need to keep an eye on the speed/time constant of this filter?



As many datasheets suggest an RC filter stage this approach should not be too far off?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    why not use LC filters?
    $endgroup$
    – user164567
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    mainly because I had to choose very very large values for L to get the same attenuation in the low Hz region. Feel free to suggest a configuration, I appreciate any help I can get! :)
    $endgroup$
    – Henry
    5 hours ago














1












1








1





$begingroup$


I have sensors (pyranometers that consist of thermopiles and measure sun irradiation) that ouput a low voltage signal so I need to amplify them using an instrumentation amplifier.
I have chosen the AD8237 for this task: Datasheet



Im using a gain of 100 to amplify the initial low voltage signal (ranging 0-20mV) to 0-2V range.



Im then feeding the amplified signal to the ADC (MCP3422): Datasheet



My sensor values change very slowly and I will read out the digitized ADC values only once every second, so speed is not important in my case.



Now as pointed out in the accepted answer in this question I need a filter between the IN-Amp and the ADC to filter the noise.
In many ADC-datasheets a simple passive RC-filter is suggested between the INA and ADC.
I did quite some research and I still have some questions that confuse me and I hope you can help me with:



I figured that a first order RC filter does not meet my requirements so I cascaded multiple RC stages:





schematic





simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



And this is the simulated filter response in LTSpice:
rc_filter



Questions:



Can I do that? What would be the disadvantages using the proposed filter?
Capacitor values like 47µF or even 100µF give me a even better response (stronger attenuation), would that have a negative impact on my signal or the ADC?



I guess resistor values should not be further increased to prevent voltage drop on my signal?



The filter response seems very promising: Signals at 10Hz already attenuated by ~50% and at 25Hz already by ~90%. As I only care about the DC signal I guess that response should be fine (also 50-60Hz range is covered strongly by the filter).



Resistors create voltage drops so how would these three cascaded resistors affect my amplified signal (thus my digitized value calculated by the ADC)? Ohms law should apply, but I do not know the current...
Any clarification on this is highly appreciated.



Regarding speed/time constants: As my data acquisition (readout ADC once per second) and change in sensor value is very slow I do not need to keep an eye on the speed/time constant of this filter?



As many datasheets suggest an RC filter stage this approach should not be too far off?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




I have sensors (pyranometers that consist of thermopiles and measure sun irradiation) that ouput a low voltage signal so I need to amplify them using an instrumentation amplifier.
I have chosen the AD8237 for this task: Datasheet



Im using a gain of 100 to amplify the initial low voltage signal (ranging 0-20mV) to 0-2V range.



Im then feeding the amplified signal to the ADC (MCP3422): Datasheet



My sensor values change very slowly and I will read out the digitized ADC values only once every second, so speed is not important in my case.



Now as pointed out in the accepted answer in this question I need a filter between the IN-Amp and the ADC to filter the noise.
In many ADC-datasheets a simple passive RC-filter is suggested between the INA and ADC.
I did quite some research and I still have some questions that confuse me and I hope you can help me with:



I figured that a first order RC filter does not meet my requirements so I cascaded multiple RC stages:





schematic





simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



And this is the simulated filter response in LTSpice:
rc_filter



Questions:



Can I do that? What would be the disadvantages using the proposed filter?
Capacitor values like 47µF or even 100µF give me a even better response (stronger attenuation), would that have a negative impact on my signal or the ADC?



I guess resistor values should not be further increased to prevent voltage drop on my signal?



The filter response seems very promising: Signals at 10Hz already attenuated by ~50% and at 25Hz already by ~90%. As I only care about the DC signal I guess that response should be fine (also 50-60Hz range is covered strongly by the filter).



Resistors create voltage drops so how would these three cascaded resistors affect my amplified signal (thus my digitized value calculated by the ADC)? Ohms law should apply, but I do not know the current...
Any clarification on this is highly appreciated.



Regarding speed/time constants: As my data acquisition (readout ADC once per second) and change in sensor value is very slow I do not need to keep an eye on the speed/time constant of this filter?



As many datasheets suggest an RC filter stage this approach should not be too far off?







amplifier adc filter instrumentation-amplifier passive-filter






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 6 hours ago







Henry

















asked 6 hours ago









HenryHenry

456




456












  • $begingroup$
    why not use LC filters?
    $endgroup$
    – user164567
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    mainly because I had to choose very very large values for L to get the same attenuation in the low Hz region. Feel free to suggest a configuration, I appreciate any help I can get! :)
    $endgroup$
    – Henry
    5 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    why not use LC filters?
    $endgroup$
    – user164567
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    mainly because I had to choose very very large values for L to get the same attenuation in the low Hz region. Feel free to suggest a configuration, I appreciate any help I can get! :)
    $endgroup$
    – Henry
    5 hours ago
















$begingroup$
why not use LC filters?
$endgroup$
– user164567
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
why not use LC filters?
$endgroup$
– user164567
6 hours ago












$begingroup$
mainly because I had to choose very very large values for L to get the same attenuation in the low Hz region. Feel free to suggest a configuration, I appreciate any help I can get! :)
$endgroup$
– Henry
5 hours ago




$begingroup$
mainly because I had to choose very very large values for L to get the same attenuation in the low Hz region. Feel free to suggest a configuration, I appreciate any help I can get! :)
$endgroup$
– Henry
5 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

ADC inputs typically are quite high impedance. I have often used 100K in series with an input with no dc loss. (and a capacitor to ground for filtering) If you are happy with the attenuation with that circuit then I would suggest scaling the resistors up and the capacitors down. I would not use electrolytic capacitors as they tend to have more leakage compared to other types. I would probably use a ceramic cap.



Edit:



I just looked at the data sheet for the part. Go take a look at page 3, Input Impedance. Loading certainly will not be an issue.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    1












    $begingroup$

    If you are reading the ADC just once per second then you need to eliminate frequencies above 0.5 Hz to prevent aliasing. If you think your system will have noise at, say 10 Hz, then that noise will contaminate your readings. I recommend that you sample at a much higher rate, perhaps some multiple of the power mains frequency, and perform low-pass filtering in software. Even a simple moving-average filter would work and wouldn't take much processing.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$





















      1












      $begingroup$

      I agree with Elliot - a little different approach could be to sample/hold, sort of a Nyquist filter where you pick the best over-sample frequency to get rid of the most prevalent noise. I've done that with RTDs in a noisy aircraft and it gave me good results. I was dealing with millivolt changes that had to be very accurate. That gets rid of those big caps and the insertion loss from the resistors that you are concerned about.






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      Bizibill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      $endgroup$





















        0












        $begingroup$

        This 3-section RC should provide better rolloff at high frequencies. The random noise is dominated by that 3,000,000 ohm resistor with the 5Hz bandwidth, less than 1uV RMS.





        schematic





        simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



        Here is what Signal Chain Explorer (we used that to predict Gargoyles interferer levels)
        shows as the 3-pole rolloff. With 2 volts PP input, the ENOB is 19.7



        enter image description here



        Notice we are NOT including ANY ADC noise contributions.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$













          Your Answer





          StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
          return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
          StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
          StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
          });
          });
          }, "mathjax-editing");

          StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
          return StackExchange.using("schematics", function () {
          StackExchange.schematics.init();
          });
          }, "cicuitlab");

          StackExchange.ready(function() {
          var channelOptions = {
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "135"
          };
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
          createEditor();
          });
          }
          else {
          createEditor();
          }
          });

          function createEditor() {
          StackExchange.prepareEditor({
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
          convertImagesToLinks: false,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: null,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader: {
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          },
          onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          });


          }
          });














          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function () {
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f418009%2frc-lowpass-filter-between-amplifier-and-adc-input%23new-answer', 'question_page');
          }
          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown

























          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes








          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          1












          $begingroup$

          ADC inputs typically are quite high impedance. I have often used 100K in series with an input with no dc loss. (and a capacitor to ground for filtering) If you are happy with the attenuation with that circuit then I would suggest scaling the resistors up and the capacitors down. I would not use electrolytic capacitors as they tend to have more leakage compared to other types. I would probably use a ceramic cap.



          Edit:



          I just looked at the data sheet for the part. Go take a look at page 3, Input Impedance. Loading certainly will not be an issue.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$


















            1












            $begingroup$

            ADC inputs typically are quite high impedance. I have often used 100K in series with an input with no dc loss. (and a capacitor to ground for filtering) If you are happy with the attenuation with that circuit then I would suggest scaling the resistors up and the capacitors down. I would not use electrolytic capacitors as they tend to have more leakage compared to other types. I would probably use a ceramic cap.



            Edit:



            I just looked at the data sheet for the part. Go take a look at page 3, Input Impedance. Loading certainly will not be an issue.






            share|improve this answer









            $endgroup$
















              1












              1








              1





              $begingroup$

              ADC inputs typically are quite high impedance. I have often used 100K in series with an input with no dc loss. (and a capacitor to ground for filtering) If you are happy with the attenuation with that circuit then I would suggest scaling the resistors up and the capacitors down. I would not use electrolytic capacitors as they tend to have more leakage compared to other types. I would probably use a ceramic cap.



              Edit:



              I just looked at the data sheet for the part. Go take a look at page 3, Input Impedance. Loading certainly will not be an issue.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              ADC inputs typically are quite high impedance. I have often used 100K in series with an input with no dc loss. (and a capacitor to ground for filtering) If you are happy with the attenuation with that circuit then I would suggest scaling the resistors up and the capacitors down. I would not use electrolytic capacitors as they tend to have more leakage compared to other types. I would probably use a ceramic cap.



              Edit:



              I just looked at the data sheet for the part. Go take a look at page 3, Input Impedance. Loading certainly will not be an issue.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 5 hours ago









              RudyRudy

              2515




              2515

























                  1












                  $begingroup$

                  If you are reading the ADC just once per second then you need to eliminate frequencies above 0.5 Hz to prevent aliasing. If you think your system will have noise at, say 10 Hz, then that noise will contaminate your readings. I recommend that you sample at a much higher rate, perhaps some multiple of the power mains frequency, and perform low-pass filtering in software. Even a simple moving-average filter would work and wouldn't take much processing.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$


















                    1












                    $begingroup$

                    If you are reading the ADC just once per second then you need to eliminate frequencies above 0.5 Hz to prevent aliasing. If you think your system will have noise at, say 10 Hz, then that noise will contaminate your readings. I recommend that you sample at a much higher rate, perhaps some multiple of the power mains frequency, and perform low-pass filtering in software. Even a simple moving-average filter would work and wouldn't take much processing.






                    share|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$
















                      1












                      1








                      1





                      $begingroup$

                      If you are reading the ADC just once per second then you need to eliminate frequencies above 0.5 Hz to prevent aliasing. If you think your system will have noise at, say 10 Hz, then that noise will contaminate your readings. I recommend that you sample at a much higher rate, perhaps some multiple of the power mains frequency, and perform low-pass filtering in software. Even a simple moving-average filter would work and wouldn't take much processing.






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$



                      If you are reading the ADC just once per second then you need to eliminate frequencies above 0.5 Hz to prevent aliasing. If you think your system will have noise at, say 10 Hz, then that noise will contaminate your readings. I recommend that you sample at a much higher rate, perhaps some multiple of the power mains frequency, and perform low-pass filtering in software. Even a simple moving-average filter would work and wouldn't take much processing.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 4 hours ago









                      Elliot AldersonElliot Alderson

                      5,64911018




                      5,64911018























                          1












                          $begingroup$

                          I agree with Elliot - a little different approach could be to sample/hold, sort of a Nyquist filter where you pick the best over-sample frequency to get rid of the most prevalent noise. I've done that with RTDs in a noisy aircraft and it gave me good results. I was dealing with millivolt changes that had to be very accurate. That gets rid of those big caps and the insertion loss from the resistors that you are concerned about.






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          Bizibill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                          $endgroup$


















                            1












                            $begingroup$

                            I agree with Elliot - a little different approach could be to sample/hold, sort of a Nyquist filter where you pick the best over-sample frequency to get rid of the most prevalent noise. I've done that with RTDs in a noisy aircraft and it gave me good results. I was dealing with millivolt changes that had to be very accurate. That gets rid of those big caps and the insertion loss from the resistors that you are concerned about.






                            share|improve this answer








                            New contributor




                            Bizibill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.






                            $endgroup$
















                              1












                              1








                              1





                              $begingroup$

                              I agree with Elliot - a little different approach could be to sample/hold, sort of a Nyquist filter where you pick the best over-sample frequency to get rid of the most prevalent noise. I've done that with RTDs in a noisy aircraft and it gave me good results. I was dealing with millivolt changes that had to be very accurate. That gets rid of those big caps and the insertion loss from the resistors that you are concerned about.






                              share|improve this answer








                              New contributor




                              Bizibill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.






                              $endgroup$



                              I agree with Elliot - a little different approach could be to sample/hold, sort of a Nyquist filter where you pick the best over-sample frequency to get rid of the most prevalent noise. I've done that with RTDs in a noisy aircraft and it gave me good results. I was dealing with millivolt changes that had to be very accurate. That gets rid of those big caps and the insertion loss from the resistors that you are concerned about.







                              share|improve this answer








                              New contributor




                              Bizibill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.









                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer






                              New contributor




                              Bizibill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.









                              answered 4 hours ago









                              BizibillBizibill

                              112




                              112




                              New contributor




                              Bizibill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.





                              New contributor





                              Bizibill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.






                              Bizibill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.























                                  0












                                  $begingroup$

                                  This 3-section RC should provide better rolloff at high frequencies. The random noise is dominated by that 3,000,000 ohm resistor with the 5Hz bandwidth, less than 1uV RMS.





                                  schematic





                                  simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



                                  Here is what Signal Chain Explorer (we used that to predict Gargoyles interferer levels)
                                  shows as the 3-pole rolloff. With 2 volts PP input, the ENOB is 19.7



                                  enter image description here



                                  Notice we are NOT including ANY ADC noise contributions.






                                  share|improve this answer









                                  $endgroup$


















                                    0












                                    $begingroup$

                                    This 3-section RC should provide better rolloff at high frequencies. The random noise is dominated by that 3,000,000 ohm resistor with the 5Hz bandwidth, less than 1uV RMS.





                                    schematic





                                    simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



                                    Here is what Signal Chain Explorer (we used that to predict Gargoyles interferer levels)
                                    shows as the 3-pole rolloff. With 2 volts PP input, the ENOB is 19.7



                                    enter image description here



                                    Notice we are NOT including ANY ADC noise contributions.






                                    share|improve this answer









                                    $endgroup$
















                                      0












                                      0








                                      0





                                      $begingroup$

                                      This 3-section RC should provide better rolloff at high frequencies. The random noise is dominated by that 3,000,000 ohm resistor with the 5Hz bandwidth, less than 1uV RMS.





                                      schematic





                                      simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



                                      Here is what Signal Chain Explorer (we used that to predict Gargoyles interferer levels)
                                      shows as the 3-pole rolloff. With 2 volts PP input, the ENOB is 19.7



                                      enter image description here



                                      Notice we are NOT including ANY ADC noise contributions.






                                      share|improve this answer









                                      $endgroup$



                                      This 3-section RC should provide better rolloff at high frequencies. The random noise is dominated by that 3,000,000 ohm resistor with the 5Hz bandwidth, less than 1uV RMS.





                                      schematic





                                      simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



                                      Here is what Signal Chain Explorer (we used that to predict Gargoyles interferer levels)
                                      shows as the 3-pole rolloff. With 2 volts PP input, the ENOB is 19.7



                                      enter image description here



                                      Notice we are NOT including ANY ADC noise contributions.







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered 3 hours ago









                                      analogsystemsrfanalogsystemsrf

                                      14k2717




                                      14k2717






























                                          draft saved

                                          draft discarded




















































                                          Thanks for contributing an answer to Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange!


                                          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                          But avoid



                                          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                          Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                          draft saved


                                          draft discarded














                                          StackExchange.ready(
                                          function () {
                                          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f418009%2frc-lowpass-filter-between-amplifier-and-adc-input%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                                          }
                                          );

                                          Post as a guest















                                          Required, but never shown





















































                                          Required, but never shown














                                          Required, but never shown












                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Required, but never shown

































                                          Required, but never shown














                                          Required, but never shown












                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Popular posts from this blog

                                          What other Star Trek series did the main TNG cast show up in?

                                          Berlina muro

                                          Berlina aerponto