Problem of parity - Can we draw a closed path made up of 20 line segments… [on hold]
$begingroup$
Can we draw a closed path made up of 20 line segments, each of which intersects exactly one of the other segments?
recreational-mathematics parity
asked 2 days ago
Luiz FariasLuiz Farias
262
New contributor
Luiz Farias is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
put on hold as off-topic by José Carlos Santos, Javi, user21820, Xander Henderson, RRL yesterday
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – José Carlos Santos, Javi, user21820, Xander Henderson, RRL
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Can we draw a closed path made up of 20 line segments, each of which intersects exactly one of the other segments?
recreational-mathematics parity
asked 2 days ago
Luiz FariasLuiz Farias
262
New contributor
Luiz Farias is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
put on hold as off-topic by José Carlos Santos, Javi, user21820, Xander Henderson, RRL yesterday
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – José Carlos Santos, Javi, user21820, Xander Henderson, RRL
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Can we draw a closed path made up of 20 line segments, each of which intersects exactly one of the other segments?
recreational-mathematics parity
asked 2 days ago
Luiz FariasLuiz Farias
262
New contributor
Luiz Farias is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
Can we draw a closed path made up of 20 line segments, each of which intersects exactly one of the other segments?
recreational-mathematics parity
recreational-mathematics parity
asked 2 days ago
Luiz FariasLuiz Farias
262
New contributor
Luiz Farias is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 days ago
Luiz FariasLuiz Farias
262
New contributor
Luiz Farias is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 days ago
Luiz FariasLuiz Farias
262
New contributor
Luiz Farias is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 days ago
Luiz FariasLuiz Farias
262
asked 2 days ago
Luiz FariasLuiz Farias
262
262
New contributor
Luiz Farias is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Luiz Farias is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Luiz Farias is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
put on hold as off-topic by José Carlos Santos, Javi, user21820, Xander Henderson, RRL yesterday
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – José Carlos Santos, Javi, user21820, Xander Henderson, RRL
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
put on hold as off-topic by José Carlos Santos, Javi, user21820, Xander Henderson, RRL yesterday
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – José Carlos Santos, Javi, user21820, Xander Henderson, RRL
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
add a comment |
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
David G. Stork's example with $18$ points and edges can easily be changed into an example with $10$ points and edges based on a pentagon inside another pentagon with alternating links. So take two of those $10$ solutions, one inside the other, and then join them appropriately to get something like this with $20$ points and edges.
answered 2 days ago
HenryHenry
101k482170
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Interesting that it has to "reverse direction"; I wonder if there's a winding-number argument to show something like this must be true...but I'm too groggy to work one out.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Bravo! (+1).... the key seems to be reversing chirality.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
It would be similarly possible to combine $6$ and $14$ solutions, and to have the sub-solutions next to each other rather than one inside the other
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Henry: Can you write code (Mathematica?) to generate a solution given $n = 2k$? That would be incredible. (I wrote code for my $n = 18$ "solution.")
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DavidG.Stork - I am afraid no as I do not do Mathematica. But the answer should be realtively simple: if $k$ is odd (and at least $3$) use your solution, while if $k$ is even (and at least $6$) then split it into two odd numbers (each at least $3$) and use your solution on each, finally adjusting to join them. This means I do not have a solution for $k=4$, i.e. for $n=8$
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
(I assume there can be no crossings at vertices or corners.)
Here is one solution for $18$ (and @Henry, below, generalizes to $20$):
Since each segment is crossed by exactly one other segment, we can think of the problem as having 10 Xs that have to be linked without crossing.
answered 2 days ago
David G. StorkDavid G. Stork
12.1k41735
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Indeed - you seem to use $9$ being odd, though $10$ is not
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can certainly do it if your drawing is on a torus: draw a decagon that goes "through the hole"; then draw a zigzag (like the one in your picture) that crosses each edge of the decagon once. The two ends of the zigzag will end up on opposite "sides" of the original decagon, but can be joined "around the back". By converting the situation to one involving a "square donut" (akin to this one) you can probably do this all with straight lines, although that may be easier if the cross-section is a pentagon rather than a square...
answered 2 days ago
John HughesJohn Hughes
65.3k24293
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I wonder if your "square donut" will force kinks in lines, thereby breaking the conditions of the problem. Possible... but not certain...
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
You may well be right. Could be that there's a Z/2Z obstruction hiding in here somewhere.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
2 days ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
David G. Stork's example with $18$ points and edges can easily be changed into an example with $10$ points and edges based on a pentagon inside another pentagon with alternating links. So take two of those $10$ solutions, one inside the other, and then join them appropriately to get something like this with $20$ points and edges.
answered 2 days ago
HenryHenry
101k482170
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Interesting that it has to "reverse direction"; I wonder if there's a winding-number argument to show something like this must be true...but I'm too groggy to work one out.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Bravo! (+1).... the key seems to be reversing chirality.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
It would be similarly possible to combine $6$ and $14$ solutions, and to have the sub-solutions next to each other rather than one inside the other
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Henry: Can you write code (Mathematica?) to generate a solution given $n = 2k$? That would be incredible. (I wrote code for my $n = 18$ "solution.")
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DavidG.Stork - I am afraid no as I do not do Mathematica. But the answer should be realtively simple: if $k$ is odd (and at least $3$) use your solution, while if $k$ is even (and at least $6$) then split it into two odd numbers (each at least $3$) and use your solution on each, finally adjusting to join them. This means I do not have a solution for $k=4$, i.e. for $n=8$
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
David G. Stork's example with $18$ points and edges can easily be changed into an example with $10$ points and edges based on a pentagon inside another pentagon with alternating links. So take two of those $10$ solutions, one inside the other, and then join them appropriately to get something like this with $20$ points and edges.
answered 2 days ago
HenryHenry
101k482170
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Interesting that it has to "reverse direction"; I wonder if there's a winding-number argument to show something like this must be true...but I'm too groggy to work one out.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Bravo! (+1).... the key seems to be reversing chirality.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
It would be similarly possible to combine $6$ and $14$ solutions, and to have the sub-solutions next to each other rather than one inside the other
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Henry: Can you write code (Mathematica?) to generate a solution given $n = 2k$? That would be incredible. (I wrote code for my $n = 18$ "solution.")
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DavidG.Stork - I am afraid no as I do not do Mathematica. But the answer should be realtively simple: if $k$ is odd (and at least $3$) use your solution, while if $k$ is even (and at least $6$) then split it into two odd numbers (each at least $3$) and use your solution on each, finally adjusting to join them. This means I do not have a solution for $k=4$, i.e. for $n=8$
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
David G. Stork's example with $18$ points and edges can easily be changed into an example with $10$ points and edges based on a pentagon inside another pentagon with alternating links. So take two of those $10$ solutions, one inside the other, and then join them appropriately to get something like this with $20$ points and edges.
answered 2 days ago
HenryHenry
101k482170
$endgroup$
David G. Stork's example with $18$ points and edges can easily be changed into an example with $10$ points and edges based on a pentagon inside another pentagon with alternating links. So take two of those $10$ solutions, one inside the other, and then join them appropriately to get something like this with $20$ points and edges.
answered 2 days ago
HenryHenry
101k482170
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
HenryHenry
101k482170
answered 2 days ago
HenryHenry
101k482170
answered 2 days ago
HenryHenry
101k482170
101k482170
2
$begingroup$
Interesting that it has to "reverse direction"; I wonder if there's a winding-number argument to show something like this must be true...but I'm too groggy to work one out.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Bravo! (+1).... the key seems to be reversing chirality.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
It would be similarly possible to combine $6$ and $14$ solutions, and to have the sub-solutions next to each other rather than one inside the other
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Henry: Can you write code (Mathematica?) to generate a solution given $n = 2k$? That would be incredible. (I wrote code for my $n = 18$ "solution.")
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DavidG.Stork - I am afraid no as I do not do Mathematica. But the answer should be realtively simple: if $k$ is odd (and at least $3$) use your solution, while if $k$ is even (and at least $6$) then split it into two odd numbers (each at least $3$) and use your solution on each, finally adjusting to join them. This means I do not have a solution for $k=4$, i.e. for $n=8$
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Interesting that it has to "reverse direction"; I wonder if there's a winding-number argument to show something like this must be true...but I'm too groggy to work one out.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
Bravo! (+1).... the key seems to be reversing chirality.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
It would be similarly possible to combine $6$ and $14$ solutions, and to have the sub-solutions next to each other rather than one inside the other
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Henry: Can you write code (Mathematica?) to generate a solution given $n = 2k$? That would be incredible. (I wrote code for my $n = 18$ "solution.")
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DavidG.Stork - I am afraid no as I do not do Mathematica. But the answer should be realtively simple: if $k$ is odd (and at least $3$) use your solution, while if $k$ is even (and at least $6$) then split it into two odd numbers (each at least $3$) and use your solution on each, finally adjusting to join them. This means I do not have a solution for $k=4$, i.e. for $n=8$
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Interesting that it has to "reverse direction"; I wonder if there's a winding-number argument to show something like this must be true...but I'm too groggy to work one out.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Interesting that it has to "reverse direction"; I wonder if there's a winding-number argument to show something like this must be true...but I'm too groggy to work one out.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Bravo! (+1).... the key seems to be reversing chirality.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Bravo! (+1).... the key seems to be reversing chirality.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
It would be similarly possible to combine $6$ and $14$ solutions, and to have the sub-solutions next to each other rather than one inside the other
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
$begingroup$
It would be similarly possible to combine $6$ and $14$ solutions, and to have the sub-solutions next to each other rather than one inside the other
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Henry: Can you write code (Mathematica?) to generate a solution given $n = 2k$? That would be incredible. (I wrote code for my $n = 18$ "solution.")
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Henry: Can you write code (Mathematica?) to generate a solution given $n = 2k$? That would be incredible. (I wrote code for my $n = 18$ "solution.")
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DavidG.Stork - I am afraid no as I do not do Mathematica. But the answer should be realtively simple: if $k$ is odd (and at least $3$) use your solution, while if $k$ is even (and at least $6$) then split it into two odd numbers (each at least $3$) and use your solution on each, finally adjusting to join them. This means I do not have a solution for $k=4$, i.e. for $n=8$
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@DavidG.Stork - I am afraid no as I do not do Mathematica. But the answer should be realtively simple: if $k$ is odd (and at least $3$) use your solution, while if $k$ is even (and at least $6$) then split it into two odd numbers (each at least $3$) and use your solution on each, finally adjusting to join them. This means I do not have a solution for $k=4$, i.e. for $n=8$
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
(I assume there can be no crossings at vertices or corners.)
Here is one solution for $18$ (and @Henry, below, generalizes to $20$):
Since each segment is crossed by exactly one other segment, we can think of the problem as having 10 Xs that have to be linked without crossing.
answered 2 days ago
David G. StorkDavid G. Stork
12.1k41735
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Indeed - you seem to use $9$ being odd, though $10$ is not
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
(I assume there can be no crossings at vertices or corners.)
Here is one solution for $18$ (and @Henry, below, generalizes to $20$):
Since each segment is crossed by exactly one other segment, we can think of the problem as having 10 Xs that have to be linked without crossing.
answered 2 days ago
David G. StorkDavid G. Stork
12.1k41735
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Indeed - you seem to use $9$ being odd, though $10$ is not
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
(I assume there can be no crossings at vertices or corners.)
Here is one solution for $18$ (and @Henry, below, generalizes to $20$):
Since each segment is crossed by exactly one other segment, we can think of the problem as having 10 Xs that have to be linked without crossing.
answered 2 days ago
David G. StorkDavid G. Stork
12.1k41735
$endgroup$
(I assume there can be no crossings at vertices or corners.)
Here is one solution for $18$ (and @Henry, below, generalizes to $20$):
Since each segment is crossed by exactly one other segment, we can think of the problem as having 10 Xs that have to be linked without crossing.
answered 2 days ago
David G. StorkDavid G. Stork
12.1k41735
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
David G. StorkDavid G. Stork
12.1k41735
answered 2 days ago
David G. StorkDavid G. Stork
12.1k41735
answered 2 days ago
David G. StorkDavid G. Stork
12.1k41735
12.1k41735
1
$begingroup$
Indeed - you seem to use $9$ being odd, though $10$ is not
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Indeed - you seem to use $9$ being odd, though $10$ is not
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Indeed - you seem to use $9$ being odd, though $10$ is not
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Indeed - you seem to use $9$ being odd, though $10$ is not
$endgroup$
– Henry
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can certainly do it if your drawing is on a torus: draw a decagon that goes "through the hole"; then draw a zigzag (like the one in your picture) that crosses each edge of the decagon once. The two ends of the zigzag will end up on opposite "sides" of the original decagon, but can be joined "around the back". By converting the situation to one involving a "square donut" (akin to this one) you can probably do this all with straight lines, although that may be easier if the cross-section is a pentagon rather than a square...
answered 2 days ago
John HughesJohn Hughes
65.3k24293
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I wonder if your "square donut" will force kinks in lines, thereby breaking the conditions of the problem. Possible... but not certain...
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
You may well be right. Could be that there's a Z/2Z obstruction hiding in here somewhere.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can certainly do it if your drawing is on a torus: draw a decagon that goes "through the hole"; then draw a zigzag (like the one in your picture) that crosses each edge of the decagon once. The two ends of the zigzag will end up on opposite "sides" of the original decagon, but can be joined "around the back". By converting the situation to one involving a "square donut" (akin to this one) you can probably do this all with straight lines, although that may be easier if the cross-section is a pentagon rather than a square...
answered 2 days ago
John HughesJohn Hughes
65.3k24293
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I wonder if your "square donut" will force kinks in lines, thereby breaking the conditions of the problem. Possible... but not certain...
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
You may well be right. Could be that there's a Z/2Z obstruction hiding in here somewhere.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can certainly do it if your drawing is on a torus: draw a decagon that goes "through the hole"; then draw a zigzag (like the one in your picture) that crosses each edge of the decagon once. The two ends of the zigzag will end up on opposite "sides" of the original decagon, but can be joined "around the back". By converting the situation to one involving a "square donut" (akin to this one) you can probably do this all with straight lines, although that may be easier if the cross-section is a pentagon rather than a square...
answered 2 days ago
John HughesJohn Hughes
65.3k24293
$endgroup$
You can certainly do it if your drawing is on a torus: draw a decagon that goes "through the hole"; then draw a zigzag (like the one in your picture) that crosses each edge of the decagon once. The two ends of the zigzag will end up on opposite "sides" of the original decagon, but can be joined "around the back". By converting the situation to one involving a "square donut" (akin to this one) you can probably do this all with straight lines, although that may be easier if the cross-section is a pentagon rather than a square...
answered 2 days ago
John HughesJohn Hughes
65.3k24293
answered 2 days ago
John HughesJohn Hughes
65.3k24293
answered 2 days ago
John HughesJohn Hughes
65.3k24293
answered 2 days ago
John HughesJohn Hughes
65.3k24293
65.3k24293
$begingroup$
I wonder if your "square donut" will force kinks in lines, thereby breaking the conditions of the problem. Possible... but not certain...
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
You may well be right. Could be that there's a Z/2Z obstruction hiding in here somewhere.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I wonder if your "square donut" will force kinks in lines, thereby breaking the conditions of the problem. Possible... but not certain...
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
You may well be right. Could be that there's a Z/2Z obstruction hiding in here somewhere.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I wonder if your "square donut" will force kinks in lines, thereby breaking the conditions of the problem. Possible... but not certain...
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I wonder if your "square donut" will force kinks in lines, thereby breaking the conditions of the problem. Possible... but not certain...
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
2 days ago
$begingroup$
You may well be right. Could be that there's a Z/2Z obstruction hiding in here somewhere.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
2 days ago
$begingroup$
You may well be right. Could be that there's a Z/2Z obstruction hiding in here somewhere.
$endgroup$
– John Hughes
2 days ago
add a comment |
